Can someone explain the G Bugles?

[Mello Dude]

I started on a v/r in the 80's.  Played v/r as late as early 87 till our new horns came in.  Aged out on 2 valve, played the first DEG  3 valved prototype in 89 (awful horn).  Played 3 valve G in reunion corps and recently played my G horn in a Bb line.  A lot of transposing.  Kids were intrigued.

 

[Bob P.]

On 6/6/2020 at 3:52 PM, ironlips said:

When one considers that this was 50 (!) years ago, it's even more impressive. These were middle and high school kids, instructed by the incomparable Sandra Opie, later a premier brass adjudicator and Hall-of-Fame member.

These horns had only one valve.

Listen to the 2 and 3 valve lines of the 80's and '90s, particularly Phantom, Blue Devils and Cadets to hear what evolved from what Sandra and the Rebels initiated.

Avoid the temptation to compare to today's brass sections. They are a different breed of cat.

So lets compare those G bugles to 1960'-70's Bb piston/rotor bugles.  Scout House for example.  Nobody ever noticed the difference back then.  In Canada (especially Quebec) Bb-F bugles were used by many corps and those corps also produced that special  "Drum Corps" like sound.  It was the arrangements for limited bugle ranges that gave the unique D&B sound, not the key of the instruments.

[Mello Dude]

7 hours ago, Bob P. said:

So lets compare those G bugles to 1960'-70's Bb piston/rotor bugles.  Scout House for example.  Nobody ever noticed the difference back then.  In Canada (especially Quebec) Bb-F bugles were used by many corps and those corps also produced that special  "Drum Corps" like sound.  It was the arrangements for limited bugle ranges that gave the unique D&B sound, not the key of the instruments.

To a point.  All the upper brass are actually alto voicing.  The instruments were also all in the same key witch changed the fundamental overtone series.  The differences between a G mello and an F mello may seems small but the sound is a lot different at least when I play and switch between them.  The differences between a G sop and a Bb trumpet are huge.  What I notice is that when old music is re-written for new instruments they sound flat or down a partial.

 

[ironlips]

14 hours ago, Bob P. said:

So lets compare those G bugles to 1960'-70's Bb piston/rotor bugles.  Scout House for example.  Nobody ever noticed the difference back then.  In Canada (especially Quebec) Bb-F bugles were used by many corps and those corps also produced that special  "Drum Corps" like sound.  It was the arrangements for limited bugle ranges that gave the unique D&B sound, not the key of the instruments.

Very good point.

When I marched in St. Catherine's Queensmen in '61/'62, I recall asking my instructor, John Sasso, why Scout House sounded "different" from us.

"Those horns are in Bb", he replied, "and that's a minor third higher, so their high C is your Eb." I didn't know a minor third from a Volkswagen at that time, but asked, "So, are they harder to play?"

"Oh yeah'", he said, "but their arrangers are hip and know how to make it all work."

 

[Bob P.]

6 hours ago, Mello Dude said:

To a point.  All the upper brass are actually alto voicing.  The instruments were also all in the same key witch changed the fundamental overtone series.  The differences between a G mello and an F mello may seems small but the sound is a lot different at least when I play and switch between them.  The differences between a G sop and a Bb trumpet are huge.  What I notice is that when old music is re-written for new instruments they sound flat or down a partial.

 

When I said Bb-F bugles I meant that all the bugles were in the same key  Bb, with the single piston giving F, thus analogous to the G-D bugles, later G-F.  I am not talking about comparing old arrangements rewritten for new instruments comparisons, but real comparison between a Bb/F line and a G/D(F) back in the 1960-70's.  Back then nobody heard the difference nor commented on them.  Because of the chromatic  limitations of the one piston bugle, arrangers had to use the higher end of the bugle range to get effects they wished, which tended to make the sound brighter and characteristically  "Drum Corps" , whether using Bb or G bugles.  One should compare "yesterdays" G lines with yesterday's Bb bugle lines and not G lines of yesterday to today's any key lines.

[ironlips]

"Because of the chromatic  limitations of the one piston bugle, arrangers had to use the higher end of the bugle range to get effects they wished, which tended to make the sound brighter and characteristically  "Drum Corps" , whether using Bb or G bugles."

Right on target, Mon Ami.

[Memories]

Corp isn't Corp since they dropped the use of G Bugles. They are glorified  Marching Band/Theatre groups relying on stage props, electronics, vocals and magnified instruments. If the current supporters of Corp ever had the experience of what Corp was before all the rules and style changes took place, they would never go to or support the modern shows. The days of the 27th Lancers, Anaheim Kingsman, Argonne Rebels, Bellville Black Knights, Muchacho's, Bridgemen, Troopers, and the Caveliers, Madison Scouts, Vanguard, Blue Devils and Kilties of years passed can no longer be experienced. The modern era Owners and directors of present day Corps have stripped away the purity, honesty and unbelievable power that was present when G Bugles ruled the Fields of Summer Competitions. 

[Lance]

people probably said the same about the addition of the first and second valves.  would love to have had ramd or dcp around back in those days. 

"blah blah blah bugles don't have no da#%$# valves! the nerve of these glorified marching band/theater upstarts with their drum corps pretensions old man yelling at cloud!"

[JimF-LowBari]

Really I can’t tell which corps are G and which are Bb. Or in the case of an alumni group I was in... mixed together. Any differences in sound I hear could be from different manufacturers and different styles of playing.

[KeithHall]

People still can't accept this change that happened along time ago? I mean, I accepted that the band Chicago only has three original members in it. The still play better music today much like drum corps is better today than yesterday!