Can someone explain the G Bugles?

[Tim K]

2 hours ago, KeithHall said:

People still can't accept this change that happened along time ago? I mean, I accepted that the band Chicago only has three original members in it. The still play better music today much like drum corps is better today than yesterday!

As someone who has loved drum corps for years (as I know is true with you), I enjoy each era for what it offers. However, I believe it was in 2000 B-flat was allowed and not all corps immediately switched, but you’d never know it was that far back. It’s probably been over 40 years since color presentations were required and I say this based on viewing Legacy DVD’s where the American flag is marched on the field flanked by sabers or pistols, only to be put in a stand, unguarded, in the corner of the field. You could probably argue that we have not had traditional guards since the days Blue Stars began wearing hot pants and spinning umbrellas. 

So why do I bring this up? On the Facebook drum corps sites, you see all sorts of comments about missing “drum corps” which includes G bugles, carry on/carry off, traditional guards, color presentations, all of which I enjoyed, but when I look at the face of the person commenting, they look too young to have been born, let alone remember the good old days. 

My thought: I graduated from high school in 1981. If you had not attended a show or marched prior to that time, you do not remember traditional guards, and don’t say 27th or Phantom as examples. Both were way ahead of their time and were not traditional at the time. You don’t remember real color presentations, carry on/carry off, a time without front ensembles. You most likely  don’t remember G bugles if you are under the age 30.

I also say this with a heaping helping of humble pie. A number of years back, I made a comment on DCP claiming that the decline in quality of a certain corps between 1999 and 2000 was due to change in instrumentation, only to learn that the corps still used G bugles that year. This was at the time we still had some of our more colorful commentators and you could vote down a comment with a minus sign. Even “Granny Smith” didn’t come to my aid! 🙂

Edited April 13, 2021 by Tim K

[MikeD]

On 4/12/2021 at 3:01 PM, Memories said:

Corp isn't Corp since they dropped the use of G Bugles. They are glorified  Marching Band/Theatre groups relying on stage props, electronics, vocals and magnified instruments. If the current supporters of Corp ever had the experience of what Corp was before all the rules and style changes took place, they would never go to or support the modern shows. The days of the 27th Lancers, Anaheim Kingsman, Argonne Rebels, Bellville Black Knights, Muchacho's, Bridgemen, Troopers, and the Caveliers, Madison Scouts, Vanguard, Blue Devils and Kilties of years passed can no longer be experienced. The modern era Owners and directors of present day Corps have stripped away the purity, honesty and unbelievable power that was present when G Bugles ruled the Fields of Summer Competitions. 

There were letters to the editor of Drum Corps News bemoaning the addition of contra bass horns, saying they were turning drum corps into band, back around 1960 or thereabouts. NanciD's great site had those issues uploaded a number of years ago.

 

[MikeD]

3 hours ago, Tim K said:

As someone who has loved drum corps for years (as I know is true with you), I enjoy each era for what it offers. However, I believe it was in 2000 B-flat was allowed and not all corps immediately switched, but you’d never know it was that far back. It’s probably been over 40 years since color presentations were required and I say this based on viewing Legacy DVD’s where the American flag is marched on the field flanked by sabers or pistols, only to be put in a stand, unguarded, in the corner of the field. You could probably argue that we have not had traditional guards since the days Blue Stars began wearing hot pants and spinning umbrellas. 

So why do I bring this up? On the Facebook drum corps sites, you see all sorts of comments about missing “drum corps” which includes G bugles, carry on/carry off, traditional guards, color presentations, all of which I enjoyed, but when I look at the face of the person commenting, they look too young to have been born, let alone remember the good old days. 

My thought: I graduated from high school in 1981. If you had not attended a show or marched prior to that time, you do not remember traditional guards, and don’t say 27th or Phantom as examples. Both were way ahead of their time and were not traditional at the time. You don’t remember real color presentations, carry on/carry off, a time without front ensembles. You most likely  don’t remember G bugles if you are under the age 30.

I also say this with a heaping helping of humble pie. A number of years back, I made a comment on DCP claiming that the decline in quality of a certain corps between 1999 and 2000 was due to change in instrumentation, only to learn that the corps still used G bugles that year. This was at the time we still had some of our more colorful commentators and you could vote down a comment with a minus sign. Even “Granny Smith” didn’t come to my aid! 🙂

DCI never required color presentations, so they were removed from being mandatory in 1972, unless the corps participated in VFW/AL competitions that still required them. I know my corps, Garfield, did not perform a real one in 1972. We had what passed for a sort-of color-pre in our Peace Sign drill to "A Mighty Fortress is Our God"/Mahler's 5th symphony as part of our "No More War" show. However, if my rapidly-fading memory serves, we did not use a real American Flag in the "presentation"...not 100% sure on that part.

[troopers1]

6 minutes ago, MikeD said:

DCI never required color presentations, so they were removed from being mandatory in 1972, unless the corps participated in VFW/AL competitions that still required them. I know my corps, Garfield, did not perform a real one in 1972. We had what passed for a sort-of color-pre in our Peace Sign drill to "A Mighty Fortress is Our God"/Mahler's 5th symphony as part of our "No More War" show. However, if my rapidly-fading memory serves, we did not use a real American Flag in the "presentation"...not 100% sure on that part.

I think using the actual USA flag for anything outside of placing it in a prominent position the pit was "illegal" in DCI.  I may be conflating a couple of BITD rules, though.

[greg_orangecounty]

On 4/12/2021 at 12:01 PM, Memories said:

Corp isn't Corp since they dropped the use of G Bugles. They are glorified  Marching Band/Theatre groups relying on stage props, electronics, vocals and magnified instruments. If the current supporters of Corp ever had the experience of what Corp was before all the rules and style changes took place, they would never go to or support the modern shows. The days of the 27th Lancers, Anaheim Kingsman, Argonne Rebels, Bellville Black Knights, Muchacho's, Bridgemen, Troopers, and the Caveliers, Madison Scouts, Vanguard, Blue Devils and Kilties of years passed can no longer be experienced. The modern era Owners and directors of present day Corps have stripped away the purity, honesty and unbelievable power that was present when G Bugles ruled the Fields of Summer Competitions. 

Appreciate the shout-out, but I recall as far back as 1971 hearing "that's NOT Drum Corps".  The "Golden Age" is probably whatever era a person marched in.  

[traverbanking]

Even though DCI, from its beginning, did not require color presentations, the U.S. Flag Code was part of the DCI rule book until some time in the late '70s. The flag code required that the U.S. flag be guarded by a corps member carrying a weapon. The U.S. flag must always be the flag furthest to the right. This included flash flags used in the drill by the "working" color guard. In order not to incur penalties due to violations of the flag code, in the early DCI era corps would use a "faux" U.S. flag such as a "76" flag with a "76" in the blue field instead of 50 stars. 

Edited April 14, 2021 by traverbanking
misspelling

[greg_orangecounty]

18 minutes ago, traverbanking said:

Even though DCI, from its beginning, did not require color presentations, the U.S. Flag Code was part of the DCI rule book until some time in the late '70s. The flag code required that the U.S. flag be guarded by a corps member carrying a weapon. The U.S. flag must always be the flag furthest to the right. This included flash flags used in the drill by the "working" color guard. In order not to incur penalties due to violations of the flag code, in the early DCI era corps would use a "faux" U.S. flag such as a "76" flag with a "76" in the blue field instead of 50 stars. 

Interesting.  I remember most of this except corps using "faux" American flags in early DCI.  We used the "current" 50-star version and I thought everyone else did too.  

[MikeD]

2 minutes ago, greg_orangecounty said:

Interesting.  I remember most of this except corps using "faux" American flags in early DCI.  We used the "current" 50-star version and I thought everyone else did too.  

It may have depended on whether or not a particular corps participated in VFW/AL events after DCI began. 

[Old Corps Guy]

Having marched and played both G bugles 70s-80s Cavies and Commandant's Own as well as Bb bugles in The Reading Buccaneers, (over 30 years separation between them), I will put it to like this. Take the best and strongest Bb Bugle sound from Blue Devils "Space Chords" or Carolina Crown (both of which, I truly love) and it won't get in your face  like the "Wall of Sound" put out by Spirit of Atlanta "Georgia on My Mind" 1980 (one of many examples) on a G bugle. 

I have stood in front all three and truly loved each and every time I got to hear that amazing sound from both types of hornlines.

[JimF-LowBari]

9 minutes ago, Old Corps Guy said:

Having marched and played both G bugles 70s-80s Cavies and Commandant's Own as well as Bb bugles in The Reading Buccaneers, (over 30 years separation between them), I will put it to like this. Take the best and strongest Bb Bugle sound from Blue Devils "Space Chords" or Carolina Crown (both of which, I truly love) and it won't get in your face  like the "Wall of Sound" put out by Spirit of Atlanta "Georgia on My Mind" 1980 (one of many examples) on a G bugle. 

I have stood in front all three and truly loved each and every time I got to hear that amazing sound from both types of hornlines.

Ahhh but was the 1980 Georgia sound/volume due to Bb or due to it being piston/rotor horns? Did a knock off of Georgia around 2010 with a G keyed 3 valve horn and couldn’t get the volume that the p/r was able to get.

And for reference I played Olds p/r in the late 70s and have one in the basement. IMO easier to pump out the sound