fsubone Posted August 16, 2013 Share Posted August 16, 2013 Sorry to take the convo back, but I marched 2006, so I can answer this. Basically, the into was supposed to be like the opening credits of a movie, or a "last time on...The Zone" showing how 2005 ended, with "History Repeating" over it. It w the same drill. However the drill was at 190 bpm, the pit was @ 144 (I think). It is #### near impossible to march silent drill while the pit plays something in another tempo. We had designated "dut"-ers, but even when near clean, the judges just thought we were all mysteriously out of step with the pit. :blink:/> also, the "History" intro + longer "White Rabbit" meant our brass didn't have a forte impact until 2:30 into the show. It just took too long to develop, pacing-wise, and our chops had to go into intricate mf stuff cold. So, 2/3 of the way through the season we basically put in the 2005 opening there. To quote one of our drummers, "You unlock this door...because the design staff has run out of ideas. Next stop: 5th place." Basically, Marc Sylvester wanted to push what a corps show could be to (and in the opinion of most, past) the limit. He took every risk--signing, props, costumes, music. There was even talk of the pre-show lot warmup becoming part of the narrative, in character. He really thought we could set the world on fire. This, with more Cadets rookies than I think ever (2005 was stacked, tons of age outs--it shows. We had like 5 vets in the whole low brass I think). In his defense, when he realized all the issues in the design, he sat us down for a tearful talk and told us "You are better than the show you are performing. The fact that those rookies came back in 2007 vs one of the most hungry, hard core & best performing corps even says volumes about the quality of the Cadets "system." TL;DR: I'm proud of 2006 despite the flaws. Thanks for the response! That was an awesome show, even though it gets panned a lot. The 2005-2007 stretch of Cadets shows were all really cool, and really pushed what I thought corps could do thematically, and really opened up mind up to the possibilities. Those tables must have been a pain in the butt to move around every day on tour, but they worked well with the show. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lincoln Posted August 16, 2013 Share Posted August 16, 2013 Truth. I seem to recall someone saying that over the course of the season they had relearned drill for virtually the entire show. Like they couldn't make up their mind so they kept changing it til they were happy with it (which I'm guessing never happened). The 2009 Normal Illinois show is posted on the FN. It's a high camera view of the first version of their drill that year. It's interesting to compare it to the finals version. There are some portions of the drill that remain intact for the season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CuriousMe Posted August 16, 2013 Share Posted August 16, 2013 A very similar thing happened in '85, '86 and '87. There were a lot of age outs in '85, and then in an effort to push the envelope of what could be, in '86 they decided to increase the hornline from the standard 60 some odd members (this was back when the corps limit was 128) to 80+ and have an incredibly minimal guard (I think there were 12 gals in the guard in '86). So, in addition to losing most of the hornline to age outs, they increased the line size by twenty members. We had A LOT of rookies in '86 (including me!). It was a very tough year and a testament to all the rookies who came back for what became a historical year in '87. FHNSAB... Sorry to take the convo back, but I marched 2006, so I can answer this. Basically, the into was supposed to be like the opening credits of a movie, or a "last time on...The Zone" showing how 2005 ended, with "History Repeating" over it. It w the same drill. However the drill was at 190 bpm, the pit was @ 144 (I think). It is #### near impossible to march silent drill while the pit plays something in another tempo. We had designated "dut"-ers, but even when near clean, the judges just thought we were all mysteriously out of step with the pit. :blink:/> also, the "History" intro + longer "White Rabbit" meant our brass didn't have a forte impact until 2:30 into the show. It just took too long to develop, pacing-wise, and our chops had to go into intricate mf stuff cold. So, 2/3 of the way through the season we basically put in the 2005 opening there. To quote one of our drummers, "You unlock this door...because the design staff has run out of ideas. Next stop: 5th place." Basically, Marc Sylvester wanted to push what a corps show could be to (and in the opinion of most, past) the limit. He took every risk--signing, props, costumes, music. There was even talk of the pre-show lot warmup becoming part of the narrative, in character. He really thought we could set the world on fire. This, with more Cadets rookies than I think ever (2005 was stacked, tons of age outs--it shows. We had like 5 vets in the whole low brass I think). In his defense, when he realized all the issues in the design, he sat us down for a tearful talk and told us "You are better than the show you are performing. The fact that those rookies came back in 2007 vs one of the most hungry, hard core & best performing corps even says volumes about the quality of the Cadets "system." TL;DR: I'm proud of 2006 despite the flaws. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corpsband Posted August 16, 2013 Share Posted August 16, 2013 (edited) This is probably bound to be an unpopular opinion, but the OP's joke may have some merit. I have zero expectation that Crown will gain another championship next season. This year was the result of considerable planning, effort, and long-term building, resulting in a corps at the apex of their art last week. Carrying that same organizational momentum into the next year requires a different skill set and energy from what it took to arrive there in the first place. They'll be top 6, and deservedly so, but as a fan I wouldn't be put out, or feel they were somehow robbed, if they didn't medal. They are an amazing corps, and an example for other groups to emulate. Interesting analysis. I think you're assuming that somehow Crown made some sort of huge investment this past season to make the push to winning. Seems to me they have been steadily pushing to this level for a quite some time. I don't see any reason at all for them to fall very far next season and fully expect them to be in the hunt again next season. 4-2-4-4-2-1 -- that doesn't look like a corps who needs to learn a "different skill set and energy". On that subject, the corps that should follow their lead are taking note of the lessons learned, and they're a'comin. I'd be made very happy if, over the next ten years, we see Vanguard, Bluecoats, Phantom Regiment, and Scouts medal and win - probably in that order, with the regular Blue Devils and Cadets wins mixed in. Yes, I recognize that some of these groups have won titles - one very recently - but I'm not sure Regiment 08 was something they actually expected to have happen for them at the beginning of that season. Crown, on the other hand, was very obviously gunning for it before they even contracted the corps. I see Bluecoats winning before Vanguard. I think SCV was a confluence of show choice and good design this season. Don't see PR challenging next season Their "formula" ran a bit dry this season and they're back to the drawing board. I think the Scouts might be poised to make the biggest jump but aren't quite ready for the leap to top3. Interesting that you left the Cavies out of the discussion entirely... Edited August 16, 2013 by corpsband Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henson Posted August 16, 2013 Share Posted August 16, 2013 (edited) Interesting analysis. I think you're assuming that somehow Crown made some sort of huge investment this past season to make the push to winning. Seems to me they have been steadily pushing to this level for a quite some time. I don't see any reason at all for them to fall very far next season and fully expect them to be in the hunt again next season. 4-2-4-4-2-1 -- that doesn't look like a corps who needs to learn a "different skill set and energy". I feel that the push was a long-term investment with a goal in mind. I do not know the inner workings of their executive organization, but I would be gobsmacked if this season wasn't the end result of a 5-year plan or something similar. They reached their long-term goal, so, what now? Will they do it again? Or will they take a breath, and repeat the cycle? I'll be the first to admit to you that this is all conjecture, and I could be wrong - but not only do I expect a drop (but still top 6), I think they would probably agree with me. I see Bluecoats winning before Vanguard. I think SCV was a confluence of show choice and good design this season. Don't see PR challenging next season Their "formula" ran a bit dry this season and they're back to the drawing board. I think the Scouts might be poised to make the biggest jump but aren't quite ready for the leap to top3. Interesting that you left the Cavies out of the discussion entirely... I'll agree with all of the above, but the interesting thing to me is the momentum Vanguard has, along with an executive staff element that has been there, done that, made the push successfully. Bluecoats, one of my two favorite corps, doesn't really have that momentum - but then, neither did Crown until pretty recently. I think the Scouts will take longer to push than people expect, but they've taken the lessons of the Star and Crown pushes to heart and they're being smarter about the long term than their fans would probably like ;) Cavaliers weren't mentioned for the same reason that the Cadets weren't. We've expected great things from them since I started following DCI in my teens (thirties now). Their recent trajectory is the anomaly. They have an organization that will figure it out, or we'll eventually replay the 2000's with Scouts and Cavaliers flipped. Notice that I'm talking about leadership, and not caption heads. There's WAY more to drum corps than the teachers. Edited August 16, 2013 by Henson 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henson Posted August 16, 2013 Share Posted August 16, 2013 (edited) I guess what I'm saying is that championships are not accidents. People who do drum corps for a living know what it takes - not just in design and rehearsal, but in recruiting, organization, logistics, spending, public relations, etc. I think there aren't many corps who can push for a title every single year - right now we have two with the financial and administrative structure to do that. Crown will either get to that point of challenging consistently soon, or they'll get stuck in 3-6 with occasional stellar years. If they're smart, they'll shoot for the second option until they've got a couple more titles. Edited August 16, 2013 by Henson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freedom Posted August 16, 2013 Share Posted August 16, 2013 I think it's funny the OP got slammed for this post and it's 5 pages long and people complaining about the thread participate. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skywhopper Posted August 16, 2013 Share Posted August 16, 2013 (edited) I think there aren't many corps who can push for a title every single year - right now we have two with the financial and administrative structure to do that. Besides BD, who's the other? For the past six years, Crown has been the second most consistent corps out there. Why would that change suddenly because of a championship? Edited August 16, 2013 by skywhopper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShortAndFast Posted August 16, 2013 Share Posted August 16, 2013 I guess what I'm saying is that championships are not accidents. People who do drum corps for a living know what it takes - not just in design and rehearsal, but in recruiting, organization, logistics, spending, public relations, etc. I think there aren't many corps who can push for a title every single year - right now we have two with the financial and administrative structure to do that. Crown will either get to that point of challenging consistently soon, or they'll get stuck in 3-6 with occasional stellar years. If they're smart, they'll shoot for the second option until they've got a couple more titles. Newsflash: Crown is to the point of challenging consistently. That's why they have 3 medals in 5 years, and a 5 year average placement of 2.6 (higher than Cadets or Cavaliers). They have the unquestioned top brass program, and top 2 programs everywhere else except percussion. What do you expect to change now that they've won? Is their staff going to leave? Are they going to attract less-skilled players? Will their designers forget how to create strong shows? Also, do you think BD did anything substantially different "in recruiting, organization, logistics, spending, public relations, etc." between 2012 and 2013? My guess is no. They have their organization and process rock solid, they just had a bit stronger design and a bit weaker competitor in 2012. As long as Crown has the administration & finances to sustain their current process, I'd expect them to be competitive most years - they plainly have one of the strongest organizations in the activity right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hostrauser Posted August 16, 2013 Share Posted August 16, 2013 Newsflash: Crown is to the point of challenging consistently. That's why they have 3 medals in 5 years, and a 5 year average placement of 2.6 (higher than Cadets or Cavaliers). They have the unquestioned top brass program, and top 2 programs everywhere else except percussion. Because I'm a numbers nerd, your post got me thinking: How have OTHER recent first-time DCI Champions fared in their build up to the title? So I did some analysis. Presented below is each corps ranked by their average Finals score for the five seasons BEFORE their first title, the year of their first title and then, in parenthesis, their average placement those five prior seasons. BUILD UP TO A CHAMPIONSHIP 96.64 Carolina Crown, 2013 (3.2) 96.00 Cavaliers, 1992 (3.0) 94.68 Phantom Regiment, 1996 (4.4) 93.00 Star of Indiana, 1991 (6.4) How about compared to other titleists who won after a long drought (i.e., no titles in any of the prior five seasons)? 95.43 The Cadets, 2011 (4.0) 95.37 Phantom Regiment, 2008 (3.6) 95.10 Blue Devils, 1994 (4.2) 94.30 Santa Clara Vanguard, 1999 (4.2) So, from what I'm seeing, from 2008-2012 Carolina Crown had one of the most successful five-year runs without a title in DCI history. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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