Stu Posted August 20, 2013 Share Posted August 20, 2013 ... Whether drum corps or football teams are sports, schools, both or neither is irrelevant except perhaps as reminders of the underlying characteristics that do matter... And one of the main, underlying, driving aspects of DCI, from it's inception in 1972 until this very moment, was and is 'to win within a competitive setting' not 'to educate within a scholastic environment'. I will say that there always has been, and currently is, technician instruction involved which does have a teaching element; but the competition has, and does, greatly trumped any education which happens to take place within DCI. DCI Corps which focus primarily on competition are those which have a shot at the top on Saturday night; corps which focus on teaching stay in the background or fold. That is not semantics but a reality; you may not like that reality, but that is what vastly, and completely, separates DCI from performing arts schools. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slingerland Posted August 20, 2013 Share Posted August 20, 2013 (edited) But lets change the dynamic a bit. What if BD and the Pacific Crest were not allowed to take in any marchers from any other Corps for 36 months. They both keep their current staffs during this timeframe. After the 36 months, does Pacific Crest stay as further away in scores as they are now with BD ? If you asked most people who've been around to put a bet on that hypothetical situation, with the staffs remaining the same, the majority would put their cash on those two corps remaining in their current relative positions (BD is still in the top, and PC is still a top 17, but not a top 7 corps). The corps are products, the members are consumers. We shouldn't be surprised that those who have a history of offering top flight products will have the greatest overall range of customers who come to them hoping to be able to make the cut. Staffs matter to the consumers (members). If you want to improve your recruiting, you improve your staff and programming positions. That's not the only element in the process, but it's the biggest difference maker. It's why Bill Cook was out buying top-level design talent when he started Star; he understood the importance that a solid staff makes in attracting members and molding the product. Edited August 20, 2013 by Slingerland Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted August 20, 2013 Share Posted August 20, 2013 I'll say it AGAIN.....not that I disagree with SOME things that a few have posted BUT where's all the support of the little guy.....certainly isn't in the stands...just ask those who have been there as a MM :blink:/>/> Open Class corps performing their finals on Tuesday in a city rather far away from the major DCI city where most drum corps fans are going, then having them perform in Indy early on Thursday morning, and we wonder why the stands for the OC are empty; duh! However, if we had the World Class corps perform just two, not three, but two shows Finals week: Semi-Finals on Thursday, the top twelve WC then rehearse on Friday, and WC finals still happen on Saturday. Then have all Open Class corps perform just one Finals show on Friday night in Indy, keep the OC tickets very reasonable for a family to attend the OC Finals, the stands for OC will be way more full than they are now. (Good luck, though, on getting Hop and Gibbs to draft a proposal advocating for that!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUARDLING Posted August 20, 2013 Share Posted August 20, 2013 (edited) Open Class corps performing their finals on Tuesday in a city rather far away from the major DCI city where most drum corps fans are going, then having them perform in Indy early on Thursday morning, and we wonder why the stands for the OC are empty; duh! :doh:/>/> However, if we had the World Class corps perform just two, not three, but two shows Finals week: Semi-Finals on Thursday, the top twelve WC then rehearse on Friday, and WC finals still happen on Saturday. Then have all Open Class corps perform just one Finals show on Friday night in Indy, keep the OC tickets very reasonable for a family to attend the OC Finals, the stands for OC will be way more full than they are now. (Good luck, though, on getting Hop and Gibbs to draft a proposal advocating for that!) no not really...Ive been at shows where even in WC the beginning of the show is empty until the big guys go on....No matter where these oc shows are theres literally noone in the stands...you can put oc on right inbetween all the others at 1/2 the price and I guarantee it emptys for OC...people then will say well I wanted to go eat , socialize, etc etc......on the other hand put WC on mid week in po-dunk america and people will drive hours to see that show....im not saying thats right BUT its the way it is for sure Edited August 20, 2013 by GUARDLING Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted August 20, 2013 Share Posted August 20, 2013 (edited) WOW!!! Bd is responsible for alot Oh and the other Elites......i would like to know when ELITE became a dirty word..I remember BITD admiring the " ELITE " and wanted to be just like them :smile:/>/>/>/> Well, please keep in mind that my reply is to a poster or two that believe that the unfair balance of power is all the lower Corps fault, many of whom are newer Corps than many of the elites, by the way. The lower tier and Open Class Corps are to blame for BD being as good as they have been for the last 35 years, as they could not prevent the old standard elites from draining these relatively newer Corps of their best talent each and every year. The logic seems to be that despite the screwy system that no other amateur youth organizations would ever permit, its the lower tiers Corps own fault for not rising up and replacing BD at the top despite losing their best marching talent to these Corps each and every year almost from their inception for the last 35 or more years. Its not the elites fault at all for such a screwy system is what some want to tell us. The fault is all with the Corps that are raided and drained of much of their best talent each and every year by the few at the top. Blame the victim. They afterall, had it coming to them. They were incapable of preventing such yearly raids on their Corps. The Elites are essentially blameless for any of this. Do I have it right ? Edited August 20, 2013 by BRASSO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUARDLING Posted August 20, 2013 Share Posted August 20, 2013 (edited) Well, please keep in mind thst my reply is to a poster or two that believe that the unfair balance of power is all the lower Corps fault. They are to blame for BD being as good as they have been for the last 35 years, as they could not prevent the elites from draining them of their best talent each and every year. The logic seems to be that despite the scrwey system that no other amateur youth organizations would ever permit, its the lower tiers Corps own fault for not rising up and replacing BD at the top despite losing their best marching tslent to these Corps each and every year for the last 35 ior more years. Its not the elites fault at all for such a screwy system is what some want to tell us. The fault is all with the Corps that are raided and drained of much of their best talent each and every year by the few at the top. Blame the victim. They afterall, had it coming to them. The Elites are blameless. Do I have it right ? Blameless NO..responsible..NO...i dont say some do what you say BUT I also know for sure that its so different from BITD when kids stayed in corps form a very young teen to ageout,,.thats the way for a corps to succeed I totally agree BUT todays kids start sometimes at 20 years old so right to the top they want..usually not paying their way either , which is an even bigger issue plagueing corps , especially the smaller corps. another issue is also the smaller corps hires a named staff member from a top 5 corps as consultant and then hires the newbie to be there all summer....the staff difference is a vast difference in MANY cases which plays aot into alot of this as well as progression Edited August 20, 2013 by GUARDLING Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freedom Posted August 20, 2013 Share Posted August 20, 2013 1376977264[/url]' post='3315036']no not really...Ive been at shows where even in WC the beginning of the show is empty until the big guys go on....No matter where these oc shows are theres literally noone in the stands...you can put oc on right inbetween all the others at 1/2 the price and I guarantee it emptys for OC...people then will say well I wanted to go eat , socialize, etc etc......on the other hand put WC on mid week in po-dunk america and people will drive hours to see that show....im not saying thats right BUT its the way it is for sure Semi finals format......WC, OC, WC, OC, WC, OC. Instant audience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUARDLING Posted August 20, 2013 Share Posted August 20, 2013 (edited) Semi finals format......WC, OC, WC, OC, WC, OC. Instant audience. i dont think so.......not at all....ive seen people up and leave during the smaller part of a show....nice theory though :smile:/> OHHH lol...unless yoiu meant 1 wc corps then an OC corps..lol....in that case ask an OC corps if they want to go on in between Crown and SCV ( as an example)..lol Edited August 20, 2013 by GUARDLING Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted August 20, 2013 Share Posted August 20, 2013 (edited) I also know for sure that its so different from BITD when kids stayed in corps form a very young teen to ageout,,.thats the way for a corps to succeed I totally agree Thats because some Drum Corps circuits had sensible and reasonable transfers policies in place between member Corps in the Drum Corps circuit. Just like all similar amateur youth groups routinely do now... and have for over 50 years. It worked in Drum Corps too, as intended. Few parents complained. Few MM's felt restrained, nor constrained. Some were able to get around the transfer rules for sure, but it led to stability, to better competition, to better relations between Corps ( at least on this matter ). So we really don't have to guess here if reasonable and sensible ( and neccessary ) transfer rules between member Corps can work in Drum Corps to help add stability to an activity that is rife with instability right now and calling out for more stability across the board. We do know it can work. It has worked. We have examples of its working successfully in Drum Corps where and when it has been implemented. Its just a matter of the will to change, thats all. Edited August 20, 2013 by BRASSO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUARDLING Posted August 20, 2013 Share Posted August 20, 2013 (edited) Thats because some Drum Corps circuits had sensible and reasonable transfers policies in place between member Corps in the Drum Corps circuit. Just like all similar amateur youth groups routeinely do. It worked in Drum Corps, as intended. Few parents complained. Few MM's felt restrained, nor constrained. Some were able to get around the transfer rules for sure, but it led to stability, to better competition, to better relations between Corps ( at least on this matter ). So we really don't have to guess here if reasonable and sensible ( and neccessary ) transfer rules between member Corps can work in Drum Corps to help add stability to an activity that is rife with instability right now and calling out for more stability across the board. We do know it can work. It has worked. We have examples of its working successfully in Drum Corps where and when it has been implemented. Its just a matter of the will to change, thats all. great Im all for it...BUT tell me where its worked and how....if someone paying alot of money doesnt want to be somewhere with a limit on time they have to march theses days how can you keep them there..they are paying....hopefully also NO CORPS regardless of class wants someone who doesnt want to be there...we've all been through that nightmare believe me Im all for the days where loyalty meant something and I reward it when i see it BUT its a very differnt kid and world now...we have all had to deal with the good as well as the bad of that double edge sword Edited August 20, 2013 by GUARDLING Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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