Why is George Hopkins a punch line?

[BigW]

9 hours ago, Icer said:

What I find most perplexing about this topic is that in all the discussion of GH that took place at the time, not one criticism had anything to do with what would become the subject of the allegations, EVEN THOUGH EVERY ONE HAD ALREADY OCCURRED. Even on an anonymous forum like DCP in a thread that was specifically created to bash the guy, no mention. As one who believes that at least some of the incidents rise to some pretty serious levels of misconduct/assault, including potential criminal consequences, it is a mystery how this stayed under wraps for so long. 

If the victims remain silent, no one will know. Perps of this sort know this. Usually, they'll say something like, "no one will believe you" to reinforce the silence.

 

That's why this remained buried for years. What makes me sad is this stuff happens over and over again with more people than just GH.

[Tim K]

14 hours ago, JimF-LowBari said:

How it stayed under wraps so long..... Penn State, Bill Cosby, Michael Feinstein..... etc etc.

It's not unheard of.....

I think you mean Harvey Weinstein. To the best of my knowledge, the only thing Michael Feinstein has been accused of is making cheesy recordings of Broadway hits!😊

[JimF-LowBari]

6 hours ago, Tim K said:

I think you mean Harvey Weinstein. To the best of my knowledge, the only thing Michael Feinstein has been accused of is making cheesy recordings of Broadway hits!😊

Thanks I get the names confused... 

[Icer]

16 hours ago, MikeD said:

That is a difficult question to answer. Two people reacting to the exact same stimulus may have different reactions, from being angry, uncomfortable, to brushing it off to even feeling happy, depending on the stimulus and how they individually interpret it. A person who does have a negative reaction...made to feel uncomfortable, should be able to make that known to the person who making them feel that way, but we all have different mindsets and experiences. 

I just wrote "Of course, I am not talking about obvious harassment", but I deleted it because what I may think is "obvious" someone else may not. How neutered do we want interpersonal interactions to be as a society, let alone in drum corps? 

If a person DOES feel uncomfortable with how they are being treated, they should be able to state that without fear of reprisal or being made fun of. The person who made them feel that way needs to understand the differences between people as individuals.

I think there is a difference between feeling uncomfortable and actions.  GH is not accused of making people feel uncomfortable.  He is being charged with two counts of outright assault, and if the allegations are true they not really a gray area (a jury will still have to assess reasonable doubt, but the seriousness of the alleged crimes themselves will not be in question).

The issue of discomfort is much harder because of different standards.  Some people are looking to be offended, others have very thick skin.  Fortunately, issues of discomfort are a long way from assault, so if we can get to a place where that's the entirety of the debate we have accomplished a lot. 

[MikeD]

2 hours ago, Icer said:

I think there is a difference between feeling uncomfortable and actions.  GH is not accused of making people feel uncomfortable.  He is being charged with two counts of outright assault, and if the allegations are true they not really a gray area (a jury will still have to assess reasonable doubt, but the seriousness of the alleged crimes themselves will not be in question).

The issue of discomfort is much harder because of different standards.  Some people are looking to be offended, others have very thick skin.  Fortunately, issues of discomfort are a long way from assault, so if we can get to a place where that's the entirety of the debate we have accomplished a lot. 

Regarding this...of course! I was referring to this statement in my response: "...individuals who make some uncomfortable, but never actually commit an offence and at any rate are never accused?"

With GH...you are right...there is little room for gray area here. These are serious criminal charges he is up against. 

[JimF-LowBari]

4 hours ago, MikeD said:

Regarding this...of course! I was referring to this statement in my response: "...individuals who make some uncomfortable, but never actually commit an offence and at any rate are never accused?"

With GH...you are right...there is little room for gray area here. These are serious criminal charges he is up against. 

To go with the grey area depends where you work. Where I’m at if you say something that is objectionable to someone, step one is you get told to stop. If you continue you can get fired if you are stupid enough to keep going and going...

Edited November 18, 2018 by JimF-LowBari

[Jeff Ream]

On 11/17/2018 at 10:35 AM, Icer said:

Penn State and Bill Cosby (and Matt Lauer and Tiger Woods if you want to throw them in as well) were not controversial at the time of the respective allegations.  By contrast, GH was already a highly controversial figure, with plenty of people having a lot of strong opinions.  Of course in the Penn State case there were loud voices saying Paterno was long past his sell-by date.  Maybe if he were still on top of his game things would have been kept quiet for longer.  I worry that there is a problem here that background checks will not sufficiently address.

I have mentioned this. State certification lists need checked and credible reports need to be investigated. Guys like Moody and Atchison were mentioned on here years ago, but the background checks cleared so they stayed until enough of a stink was raised.