I KNEW this was coming.

[aanpote]

Not sure I know what this means.

Are you suggesting the Cadets' guard scored poorly because their equipment looked different? They certainly didn't have any more drops than corps using traditional equipment, so that can't be it.

I'm curious as to how the "experiment" failed.

The new equipment had more curve to them. This while allowing to do a couple of cool things with them limited their vocabulary compared to the more standard rifles and sabers. This also made them much harder to clean. It took the cadets "weapons" line a long time to clean those things up and I'm not sure they completely succeeded. I'm not against trying new things but its going to take time to develop and I don't think these were good replacements.

[BigW]

Have yet to hear of a rash of killing sprees carried out with low brass instruments, but ya' never know I guess.

At the inner city HS I worked at, I was told by a fellow music Educator that a kid went after an Assistant Principal in the band Room with a music stand. He picked the wrong Assistant Principal, the guy got off of a Murder Rap on Self-Defense a few years before this incident. He grabbed a Sousaphone, blocked the kid's swing, and then knocked him out cold with the Sousie.

That's the closest I've ever heard of anyone actually using a Low Brass Instrument as a weapon. This principal was a decent guy, too. The look on his face when I brought in an empty fire extingusher that I used to put out a fire caused by a kid smoking and tossing the still lit butt into a trash barrel was, indeed, priceless.

[charlie1223]

I really have no idea what you are talking about now.

[fsubone]

Someone mentioned low brass not being used as weapons. I beg to differ

[Kilgore42]

They are also selling guard equipment: the Loop, the Hook, the Bolt. Here's the clincher: "Gone are the implements of war such as the sabre and rifle..."

"Implements of war?" Are you kidding me?

This must mean no more West Side Story shows from the Cadets. I'm sure they wouldn't want to do any programs that promote the use of knives and guns.

[chasgroh]

Whatever your views are on the larger issues, and what is overly-PC or not, this is not a bad marketing move. So many schools have zero tolerance policies on toy guns on campus that, regardless of history, tradition, etc., having the bands and guards use toy guns and swords could be seen as putting the directors in an awkward position. I would imagine at least some will choose these as an option for sidestepping the whole debate

Cadets demonstrated this summer that these things could be used in pretty much an identical manner to traditional weapons. In fact what they did with them was SO traditional that a good percentage of people didn't even notice that they weren't standard rifles and sabres.

This. The slow disengagement from traditional rifles/sabres will gain momentum and within, say, 10 years they will be all but gone, except for props. And I've shot more rounds in a minute than most people will shoot in their entire lives! Hah! Love my personal guns...but think there's no place in our school systems, and, by extension, those who utilize our school systems, for facsimile weapons. Just my opinion...we'll see...

Edited August 24, 2013 by chasgroh

[GUARDLING]

This. The slow disengagement from traditional rifles/sabres will gain momentum and within, say, 10 years they will be all but gone, except for props. And I've shot more rounds in a minute than most people will shoot in their entire lives! Hah! :w00t:/>/>/>/>/>/>/>/>/> Love my personal guns...but think there's no place in our school systems, and, by extension, those you utilize our school systems, for facsimile weapons. Just my opinion...we'll see...

and this is the point I was making when saying POSSIBIBLY there MIGHT be more to this with the YEA affiliations. MAYBE>>MAYBE NOT...but it becomes clear with some it's just a George Hopkins thing and will condecend with the attitude that it's silly, rediculous or what ever words were used but yet are hung up on the words WEAPONS OR WAR OR WHATEVER...So if he said they were symbols of class room murders of today or gang violence..would that be better? GEZZZZZZ, it certainly would be true now wouldnt it. it becomes so clear to so many there are certain people here that have their panties in a knot with Hopkins and no matter what is said on ANY given subject they take the opposition....Thats fine just dont make SILLY and OBVIOUSLY REDICULOUS statements. "Pete Freedman"in his post pointed out several highlighted words of condecention,Silly, foolishness, etc etc and "BRASSO" It's pretty clear you dont want to get it merely because it's a Hopkins statement.which " Charlie" pointed out also......believe me I also can jump on stuff he has said that goes against the grain but WHO CARES ! Whatever the reason ANY DIRECTOR wants to be rid of ANYTHING in their corps, what's it have to do with us .

I have said over and over is there a possibility there's more to this with all the YEA affiliations...Obviously , you dont think so or arent even willing to see that there might be, which is leading more and more to believe its just a GEORGE thing with you.

Hey I'll jump on that wagon against GEORGE with ya on any subject you want...........but not this and I'm a guard person NOT wanting to lose my traditional equipment but can see that there could be MANY reasons for this and yes it also could just be a GEORGE thing but either way SO WHAT!!!!!

You BRASSO are certainly entitled to the opinion you have BUT so is GEORGE, especially about his corps and any of us for that matter WITHOUT calling anyones opinion SILLY< FOOLISH, REDICULOUS , especially those of us that maybe actually be dealing with situations like this and possible opposition to the fake symbols of war..yes i SAID IT ON PURPOSE...LOL....Just trying to bring it back ...I dont want you to feel attacked at all, BUT. let me ask you this..how the heck did rifles, sabres, side arms guarding the flag when we had American Flag Sections, etc etc even get into drum corps...well American Legion/VFW sponsored and made rules for the activity and wasnt music,uniform for many and color guard equipment resemble or have a connection to military and WAR.all our marching termanology...M&M , squads ,flanks, company fronts, to the rear marches.etc etc..well .I think it did!!!!it didnt come from Miss Mitzy's school of dance...lol :smile:/>/>/>/>

Edited August 24, 2013 by GUARDLING

[BRASSO]

:w00t:/>/>/> Love my personal guns...but think there's no place in our school systems, and, by extension, those who utilize our school systems, for facsimile weapons.

I think we have just moved into the political realm with this comment, and thats perhaps a bit unfortunate. For my part, firearm protection for schools is a decision best left up to the local parents, and school officials in their communities. If, for example, you mandate that inner city schools that have had armed security in their schools for decades must now become disarmed, I'm pretty sure they'd be a popular uprising in these schools as few of these parents ( many of whom are minorities ) would agree to then send their children to schools that would then have their children completely vulnerable and more susceptible to potential serious injury or death by the bad people. As an outsider, I don't believe that its in my realm to force this decision on these schools Parents and officials. I would never send my child to a school that once had armed security protection for children and parents and has then made the decision to disarm that private security patrol at the school. My first obligation as a Parent is to provide safety to my child. These are dangerous times we now live in. Disarming armed security patrols in inner city schools would allow these schools then to become just like the shooting galleries of death right outside the schools front steps. That would be irresponsible to allow that to occur, imo

Edited August 24, 2013 by BRASSO

[Pete Freedman]

Perfect. Now if we can just get a guard to spin them...

[Pete Freedman]

/>/>/> Love my personal guns...but think there's no place in our school systems, and, by extension, those who utilize our school systems, for facsimile weapons.

I think we have just moved into the political realm with this comment, and thats perhaps a bit unfortunate. For my part, firearm protection for schools is a decision best left up to the local parents, and school officials in their communities. If, for example, you mandate that inner city schools that have had armed security in their schools for decades must now become disarmed, I'm pretty sure they'd be a popular uprising in these schools as few of these parents ( many of whom are minorities ) would agree to then send their children to schools that would then have their children completely vulnerable and more susceptible to potential serious injury or death by the bad people. As an outsider, I don't believe that its in my realm to force this decision on these schools Parents and officials. I would never send my child to a school that once had armed security protection for children and parents and has then made the decision to disarm that private security patrol at the school. My first obligation as a Parent is to provide safety to my child. These are dangerous times we now live in. Disarming armed security patrols in inner city schools would allow these schools then to become just like the shooting galleries of death right outside the schools front steps. That would be irresponsible to allow that to occur, imo

Well, he wouldn't be the first...

...

I likwise understand that our nation's founding and its resultant freedoms and liberties did not come principally from plebiscite, nor from legislative means, but by the blood of Revolution where the principal and preferred implement in the War for Independence for the Revolutionaries was the rifle.

...

I could have taken that bait, but I can't because it's political.

This is really a discussion by proxy in some sense, because none of us can really state the political perspectives underlying what Hop might have been thinking, or what his customers might be thinking, or parents, or you or me or anyone else. So we just argue why the other is wrong, but can't really make our own case completely - except with an occasional tiptoe over the DCP line. Frustrating, no?