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Doyle

Crossmen Visual Design

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Remember I said Design.

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Exactly.

I thought they just had a fundamentally bad, restrictive show concept this year.

Besides, there's not enough evidence to say Caption X was their Achilles Heel. They finished 14th overall in music and visual (both performance and GE).

While I don't agree that the show was fundamentally bad, I agree(and felt this way the day they announced the Protest theme) that it was fundamentally restrictive.

I think that great shows are restrictive too - "Rite of Spring" (whichever version) is going to put you in some tight spots making it work. "Einstein on the Beach" might be restrictive. "Corps of Brothers" was restrictive to the point that I (while liking much of it) found myself shaking my head at times. And some shows felt as if they might have benefited from a slightly more restrictive theme. The ones where you ended up thinking "Huh... wonder what that was about and where did that title fit in?"

But I'm not putting the Protest show into the class of the top corps' shows. It was a tough concept to sell.

I completely agree that while it doesn't matter a whit what we DCP'ers think about the corps' challenges or opportunities it would be dangerous for a Corps leadership to think it would be an easy fix by swapping out a visual (or other) designer here or there.

Let's hope there's a good return and a good recruiting class and they use this year as grist for the programming mill for 2014.

I had a great time watching them, and look forward to their future.

Like you I have my own feelings about specifics like visual, brass (which I fundamentally dug), and percussion books.

This was a real fight for 12th and I think that anyone of 4 corps could have ended up in that position with an outside shot for a 5th. Cool year.

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Remember I said Design.

I know, and people are responding to your question with evidence that says there's more to their lackluster finish than just visual design.

And saying that "they never went outside the 35s" isn't a good enough reason to say they're drill writer should be canned.

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While I don't agree that the show was fundamentally bad, I agree(and felt this way the day they announced the Protest theme) that it was fundamentally restrictive.

Ok, I might have been a bit harsh when it said it was fundamentally bad. But it was definitely restrictive, and I couldn't imagine the designers had much fun with it.

What makes it restrictive is its vagueness. It's a show about the emotions behind social issues, but you can't go into much of the specifics of those issues (out of fear of alienating your audience, boring your audience, or both). So you're left with corps members shouting at the audience to "stand up" and something about "freedom." Stand up for what? Freedom from what?

The show would have been somewhat more interesting if they showed opposition. Protesting is not an easy, fun, feel-good thing. It's a struggle that sometimes never pans out.

Edited by ShutUpAndPlayYerGuitar

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Ok, I might have been a bit harsh when it said it was fundamentally bad. But it was definitely restrictive, and I couldn't imagine the designers had much fun with it.

What makes it restrictive is its vagueness. It's a show about the emotions behind social issues, but you can't go into much of the specifics of those issues (out of fear of alienating your audience, boring your audience, or both). So you're left with corps members shouting at the audience to "stand up" and something about "freedom." Stand up for what? Freedom from what?

The show would have been somewhat more interesting if they showed opposition. Protesting is not an easy, fun, feel-good thing. It's a struggle that sometimes never pans out.

Plenty of corps have vague shows and do fine. Blue Knight's show? It was basically about circles. What did "Rise" mean other than getting up from the field?

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Plenty of corps have vague shows and do fine. Blue Knight's show? It was basically about circles. What did "Rise" mean other than getting up from the field?

Not sure I'd go quite that far, espcially with Boston, but I totally agree that those are two of the shows that you watched and said..."errrr.... okay..."

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Ok, I might have been a bit harsh when it said it was fundamentally bad. But it was definitely restrictive, and I couldn't imagine the designers had much fun with it.

What makes it restrictive is its vagueness. It's a show about the emotions behind social issues, but you can't go into much of the specifics of those issues (out of fear of alienating your audience, boring your audience, or both). So you're left with corps members shouting at the audience to "stand up" and something about "freedom." Stand up for what? Freedom from what?

The show would have been somewhat more interesting if they showed opposition. Protesting is not an easy, fun, feel-good thing. It's a struggle that sometimes never pans out.

OK... I agree with 96% of what you said. Having said that - I think they attempted much. No matter how you feel about a show that explores extra-musical "social issue" shows they pushed an envelope, and that's good for DCI, and I think for the Crossmen. I believe that hard core Crossmen fans loved this year's corps, and that Crossmen alumni felt well represented. The "I like you today" fans come and go for every corps - and they're important too (if for no reason than that they buy tee shirts)but you plan your show for your corps, and you trust that if you succeed the fans will enjoy it, and that the more you succeed, more fans, and more enjoyment.

Every year every corps but one comes up at least a bit short of their aspirations - or at least their dreams. I could be entirely full of crap, but I think that Crossmen put some important notions out on a field to examine. Did they succeed? I think that's a question that each person, including corps members, answers in his or her own way.

This was my daughter's first year in World Class. I would have loved for her to get to perform at finals, as my four oldest have done many times. But I don't look at 2013 as a disappointment. She will make that decision for herself, but it was worth our money and time and energy.

I think that we at DCP take a "Twitter" focus on much of what we explore. If you can't describe success in 140 characters it's not success.

I dare anyone out there to tell me that Troopers failed this year. Success is only real in the relative value that each of us give it.

You're not wrong. There are other opinions equally un-wrong. Just depends on where you're standing (and what uniform or corps jacket you're wearing).

I'm glad they tried much and accomplished almost as much as they hoped for. I'll take that over a foot stompin' finger snapping rice crispy finalist show (not saying that show exists) any day of the week. Even with my Bayonne background. In those days we were trying much too.

Edited by rayfallon
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I know, and people are responding to your question with evidence that says there's more to their lackluster finish than just visual design.

And saying that "they never went outside the 35s" isn't a good enough reason to say they're drill writer should be canned.

All good points, but this year why is 14th "lackluster"? Because the corps was 12th last year? Couldn't you apply that to every corps that finished lower than the year before placement wise?

Am I the only one that really liked this show? BTW I watched the same drill as you all and listened to the same percussion and brass and have enough experience to get where each could be stronger. But with all that, I really liked this show. I've been cranking Sting since July.

I think that we at DCP can get really really serious and even judgmental at times.

And I hoped they'd make finals, but don't think the finish was lackluster. There were a lot of lustrous corps out there this year.

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OK... I agree with 96% of what you said. Having said that - I think they attempted much. No matter how you feel about a show that explores extra-musical "social issue" shows they pushed an envelope, and that's good for DCI, and I think for the Crossmen. I believe that hard core Crossmen fans loved this year's corps, and that Crossmen alumni felt well represented. The "I like you today" fans come and go for every corps - and they're important too (if for no reason than that they buy tee shirts)but you plan your show for your corps, and you trust that if you succeed the fans will enjoy it, and that the more you succeed, more fans, and more enjoyment.

Every year every corps but one comes up at least a bit short of their aspirations - or at least their dreams. I could be entirely full of crap, but I think that Crossmen put some important notions out on a field to examine. Did they succeed? I think that's a question that each person, including corps members, answers in his or her own way.

This was my daughter's first year in World Class. I would have loved for her to get to perform at finals, as my four oldest have done many times. But I don't look at 2013 as a disappointment. She will make that decision for herself, but it was worth our money and time and energy.

I think that we at DCP take a "Twitter" focus on much of what we explore. If you can't describe success in 140 characters it's not success.

I dare anyone out there to tell me that Troopers failed this year. Success is only real in the relative value that each of us give it.

You're not wrong. There are other opinions equally un-wrong. Just depends on where you're standing (and what uniform or corps jacket you're wearing).

I'm glad they tried much and accomplished almost as much as they hoped for. I'll take that over a foot stompin' finger snapping rice crispy finalist show (not saying that show exists) any day of the week. Even with my Bayonne background. In those days we were trying much too.

Well said. Completely agree that there's more to a successful drum corps season than what happens during a couple of days in August, or what happens during a design meeting in October.

A post like this forces me to step back, take a breath, and reconsider what makes me enjoy drum corps, so thank you.

Congratulations to your daughter, by the way. Even though I just didn't dig the concept, the members performed the hell out of it anyway. They definitely have that Crossmen presence that was missing for a while.

Edited by ShutUpAndPlayYerGuitar
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Well said. Completely agree that there's more to a successful drum corps season than what happens during a couple of days in August, or what happens during a design meeting in October.

A post like this forces me to step back, take a breathe, and reconsider what makes me enjoy drum corps, so thank you.

Congratulations to your daughter, by the way. Even though I just didn't dig the concept, the members performed the hell out of it anyway. They definitely have that Crossmen presence that was missing for a while.

:worthy::thumbup::worthy::thumbup::worthy::thumbup:

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