Someone please explain e=mc^2 to me, because I really don't like/g

[dcibrando]

I thought their hornline was phenomenal but on a side note...

To be honest with you it seems shows don't have to make sense anymore to score well so some just pick a theme, pick some music, and sometimes that's about it

[chaddyt]

Counting: My quick search found that apparently the counting is supposed to be "...an interpretation as a reference to the mathematical and scientific breakthroughs made by Einstein himself." And I'm sorry but as someone majoring in math education and dating a physicist, that just rubs me the wrong way. YES, Einstein was a genius. YES, he shaped modern physics. However, more modern physics is finding that he may be completely wrong. I protest that such beautiful achievements be referenced by counting over and over again to the number 8. Yes, I know that musically 8 is convenient to count to. But I mean come on. The equation is squared, and 8 is a cube. To me, that's like drawing a line and saying it exists in 2 dimensional space. It's just silly.

Poem: Couldn't find the name, someone help?

So you have interpreted Einstein's work into a less-offensive opera?

I'd love to hear it.

[euponitone]

I had this exact discussion (more or less) with some friends last night.

First of all - I loved crowns show. I was at finals, and I also managed to watch a video of it (sshhhhh!) 4 times in 24 hours. This coming from a cadets fan, who is more than moderately annoyed at times that they have basically owned my corps for the 5 of the past 6 years. I've never bought a thing from them, and they've never had my favorite show of the year....until now.

As far as "getting the show"...understand this. There are some people (and I talked to some like this last night), who will never be able to accept spoken voice in drum corps. They hear counting, or narration, or whatever, and their brains immediately go into lockdown mode. I first heard of this phenomenon from Hrothgar back in 2004 / 2005 or so, and its an unfortunate affliction that many people still deal with. I cant say I agree with it, but at least I understand that it has been, and always will be, a huge turnoff for some people. And....if you are the kind of person inherently bothered by it...well, you wont make it even 1 second into crowns show. Nothing anyone tells you, or explains to you, is going to change that...

To the point of crown "becoming BD" to beat them... really?!?! I mean come on. Did they take a step or two in that direction? Sure... But I could have watched or listened to that corps in rehearsal clothes playing just a minute or two of their show, and I would have known for sure who they were. Its not just the hornline SOUND, but the way they write the book. Add their brand of body movement (not something I'm a huge fan of), and their propensity for happy, uplifting themes...well, it was just obvious. Crown did exactly what they needed to do. They got a little bit more cerebral, designed a smarter drill (and uniform) that was cleanable, but still the hardest thing on the field, and did just well enough in all the captions to win. Simple as that.

To be honest, i'm looking forward to the next step. Not just for them as a corps, but for their fans. Cavies got the complaints from 2002-2006. Cadets from 2005-2008, and of course its been BD lately. It will be interesting to see Crown go from being almost universally loved to...well, who knows...

[old skool drmmr]

Why does the theme/concept/atmosphere of their show have to have a point/story/plot? Can't it just be a theme/concept/atmosphere? Isn't it possible that they were just trying to create a general aesthetic, not tell a story? Most shows, in fact, DON'T have a clear story line. Why does this one have to have one?

I find it ironic that the majority of people who dislike the show, do so on the basis that "I shouldn't have to be educated on a show to enjoy it" or "I shouldn't have to have a show explained to me in order to like it."

I agree! YOU'RE the one who keeps insisting that there's something to be educated about or explained! If you wish that drum corps was like it used to be, back when you didn't need cliff notes and Wikipedia and a music degree to enjoy a show, boy this show should be right up your alley! Just like the original Einstein on the Beach opera, there's no complex plot to follow, no story line, and any greater meaning gets to be determined by YOU: the observer! It's just a general atmosphere and aesthetic being created that allows for some pretty cool music to happen.

[Michael Boo]

...

Poem: Couldn't find the name, someone help?

It's named "Knee 5." Here are the lyrics.

[corpsband]

(To me , at least) Crown's show was not about Einstein per se. Nor was it about relativity, physics or math.

It was "let's crack open Einstein's brain and peek at what sort of things are flying around in there".

Shockingly enough -- this is exactly what Einstein on the Beach seems to be.

If you learn just a little about Einstein, the love story makes TOTAL sense. His views on love vs. the rest of the human experience are well documented (as is his .. umm .. personal track record in the love department).

If you *really* want to "get" Crown's show, watch the first 10 minutes of this. Phillip Glass and Robert Wilson explain it far better than anyone else.

"we had taken a person and made it the subject of the piece. in a certain way, the person

replaces the idea of plot. in other words the character of the person is what piece is about."

--- P Glass

"it's not a historical representation of einstein, it's a poetical work about einstein."

--- R Wilson

Finally -- I'll just restate again: IMHO you don't need to "get" Crown's show at all to enjoy it at face value. It's perfectly good drum corps *without* the need to "get it" at all.

Edited August 30, 2013 by corpsband

[kip]

I knew what their show was titled at the begining of the season, as I knew what other show titles were for this year, ie. e=mc2... Triumphant Journey, Les Miserables, Side by Side, etc. Everybody has a story/narrative to go along with their title... and that's nice.

But, I drove up to GW University a half-dozen times after spring move-ins to hear that horn line, regardless of their show title or story theme [even though I am a drummer and treat brass as 'accompaniment' to the persussion :tongue:/>]

I simply expected to hear an energetic opener, a massive sound from the middle of the show, and a speedy(x2?) closer - they could have played any selections they wanted. I loved what they were doing from day one without knowing the details of EoB or any poems or relativity theorems. The show evolved, narration was added (snuck most of that in on me on the trip to Cali), and it was tweaked more as the end of the season neared. The show "theme" dictated the types of changes that were made, but those changes were still made within the medium that entertains me - world-class drums and bugles (and spinning) and the incredible marching/movement while they are doing it!

Why do we have to "get" a story/theme to say a drum corps show was worthy of winning, or worthy of our appreciation?

I "got" what they did - and it was awesome. Well-played Crown. :worthy:/>

[splat-a-drag-a-phonium]

FWIW- my take is that Crown is not telling a story that you have to follow or research to understand the show. I feel they design a show not to be too literal AND that has an ambiguous plot. Which in turn leaves an opening for each viewer to interpret based on their own thoughts, feelings, experiences, etc. Therefore opening up their program to be more accessible by a wider range of people. Personally if you don’t understand the show…you’re likely thinking way too hard about it and not sitting back to enjoy what they are doing.

[garfield]

Yes a mathematical theory that says we are all donuts and are donuts no mater the dimension is not rigid at all... While the word "rigid" was used off the cuff your example perhaps was not the best. Theoretical sciences are perhaps not rigid on the whole but the concept was more that regardless of te numerous theories there are points of science and math that must exist for them to even be "validated". What is rigid in math and science is the idea that theories must be grounded in research and facts. And understand that the fact that we know little about our universe does not imply that it's study, regardless of its outlandish theories, is not rigid.

And lastly you said yourself that it was "interesting" and that should be enough. Crowns show was not designed for anything to be learned just simply for different thoughts to be experienced simultaneously and compared. Whether intelluctual (science/ love) or Artistic (music/story-telling).

I would imagine that someone like you would care less about the designers intentions and simply put your own spin on all the elements of the show and have it mean something for you. You were saying you were selfish when it came to music but for some reason you're looking towards others to feed you their ideas of the show when you are more than capable of creating a meaning for yourself.

Not picking on you, specifically, Charlie, but at the bolded above, as it has shown up several times in discussions of Crown's show.

I didn't learn anything new in Crown's performance (or EOTB, either) but I did get validation of what I already suspect. I'm a numbers guy, if not much of a scientist, and Crown spoke to me on a more visceral level than even numerical results do. Being a rational person (I imagine much the same as Einstein), I look for specific identifiable validation of most things I do throughout my day. And not just for my own edification of entertainment or enjoyment but because I deal with several hundred million dollars of OPM (other people's money) so it's absolutely mandatory that I try to rationalize most thoughts into quantifiable meanings to simply justify odds. I also count the steps up to the second floor of my house. Every time, going up, going down. It's always 16 and while it helps prevent me from falling on my nose, it's also vindicating and validating the mundane certainty of my day. I'm not fanatical but, rather, very methodical. Structured. Repeatable. (Many people would say "boring", I suppose.)

Then I fell in love, and all of that rigid, structure habit and training went flying out the window. I was a giddy mess. Nothing in love made sense or was quantifiable. My rationale and reduction were useless, as I was willing to abandon all training and structure in order to satisfy my desire. It could not be expressed mechanically (even the physical part of love), my actions seemed driven from outside of my logic and understanding. In short, I could not explain falling in love in any way that was familiar to me.

I'm not sure anyone can get inside Glass' head to understand exactly his intent with EOTB. But Crown's show grabbed me by the throat and presented me with validation that my complete and utter lack of rationalization of love and its effects on me is completely normal. Within the bounds of most's structured, mundane, and boring lives, some things simply aren't reducible to the level of counting steps. There is no Einstein theory to explain it.

Now, add Crown's amazingly beautiful musical production, horn tone and quality, and visual accentuation, and their show touched me on a visceral, emotional, and psychological level that few have, ever.

I could be that CavFan is simply too young, or too inexperienced in love, to share my experience from Crown, but there may be other interpretations here that may reflect him more and don't require him to see it my way, or the "right" way as so many other shows seem to demand. Maybe that's part of the beauty of Crown's offering - it allows for enough varied viewpoints that it can appeal to many more than just the "art snobs", and still reach through and touch each one with similar impact.

Besides, that darn pyramid prism drill was freakin' awesome!

Edited August 30, 2013 by garfield

[MikeD]

...find a wormhole to crawl into ...

I think that is Crown's show next season. :smile:/>