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Someone please explain e=mc^2 to me, because I really don't like/g


Answer after reading my comments, please :)  

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  1. 1. Considering their title, what it implied, and what was presented, does Crown's show make sense?

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That's in the original dialogue, which you can read here. What wasn't in the original dialogue was the comment, "Everything must have an end except my love for you."

Interesting. It sounded like part of the narration to me.

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There's no indication that you ever bothered to even listen to Glass's full composition. This kind of crass commentary speaks volumes about your arrogance, ignorance, and intolerance to the diversity of musical expression.

DCI (and, secondarily, WGI) has been my primary venue to understand new music. I don't ultimately enjoy all of what I hear on the field, but I do take the time and effort to understand music before coming to judgment. EotB is available on Spotify. As long as you are pre-Mission, you have no excuse for at least listening to the music before making such crass commentary. If I knew who you were when you came to my door (or wherever you contact people on mission) odds are zero that you would be able to sell me anything. Attitude is everything, and you bring far too much baggage to the table. Capiche?

I intended my last post to be my last here before leaving, but:

First off, being rude doesn't help anyone's point and that kind of aggressive language is ill-fitting of these forums and the kind of discussion people are trying to have here. I realize there are plenty of people here who have strong feelings about my church, but using that in thinly veiled insults about my personal character is simply childish and shows that you've got "baggage" of your own.

Second, I spent all summer trying to understand Crown's show. I literally thought about it every day and watched it several times a week. I did, contrary to popular belief, try to like it.

Third, I'm not going to listen to 4 hours of esoteric opera just to understand a 13 minute DC show. I shouldn't have to. For more on that opinion, see most of Stu's recent comments.

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While I agree that '11 Cadets program got a "bigger" reaction the '05 Cadets got a great crowd reaction as well. Personally think you are way underestimating the mentality of the masses. Many of us prefer to be moved in a thoughtful manner.

Where did I ever say that '11 Cadets Angels and Demons show did not provide entertainment in a 'thoughtful manner'? I never stated anything of the sort. Angels and Demons provoked the thought process by having the audience weigh good vs. evil; it provoked the thought process of evaluating musical arrangements evoking the emotion behind the good vs. evil. However, it was also presented in a rather 'simplistic manner' which communicated to the audience those aspects without the need for the audience to engage in the process of 'historical intellectual education', or the need for the audience to deeply reflect the underlying web of 'intellectual meaning' through the staff creating a synopsis, or the need to for the audience comprehend 'experimental intellectual music theory'. Contrary to what Ivory Tower minds wish to believe, the Joe Schmoes have just as much importance within the world of DCI; and they are also are way, way, way in the majority as it applies to numbers in the audience. And it is the condescension of those Ivory Tower minded which attempt to 'educate' the Joe Schmoes, imo, that is taking what can be a great form of entertainment for a packed out sold out pro stadium full of paying patrons and turning it into an outlet for just a few elite intellectual mindset.

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My points of audience observation are nothing more than comparing say the audience reaction to the first place '11 Cadets to the first place '05 Cadets.

But I contend that, while Cabaret Voltaire was the tip end of the spectrum, the design spectrum in this modern era actually leans way more toward a deeper philosophical intellectual model than not.

I hope not.

Even in this year's Regiment show we had Dan Ferrell out there attempting to explain the Puppet Witch and the Story Line during the Thursday Theater Event which really could not be conveyed in a short synopsis.

Does that mean that the witch was highbrow in some way? Or the show in general?

It's an excellent example. I didn't see that explanation by Dan Ferrell, and I had no trouble connecting with the show. My only quibbles were with the quality of the animatronics itself, and uniform issues and such. The story was clear enough; the kingdom is beset by perils in the form of an evil sorceress/queen, a dragon, and a scary forest. She makes it through the forest, finds a magic sword, defeats the dragon and queen and returns triumphant. Perhaps there's more to the story, but you don't need to know it to 'get' the story.

Yes it's entirely possible for Phantom to put hidden references in that people won't notice unless they know to look for them, but in no way did Phantom put anything in that show that made me say, "Hey, I don't get this show."

Moreover, I contend that the crowd reaction for Crown winning this year was just as much about a first-time winner beating out a 15-time world champion as it was about 'enjoyment' of the Crown show. And again, based on overall crowd response observation of all shows from say 1995 to the present, the paying public appear to desire shows in which they can just escape from reality for a while, escape from intellectual education for a while, and just enjoy music entertainment with accessible material. This is why (both first-place shows) Angels and Demons seemed to 'work' for the crowd and The Zone did not. I get back to the Joe Schmoes who represent the general paying public in the crowd; if it takes 'education' and story synopsis to get engaged with a show the result is going to always be golf claps or going to get a hot dog at best, or them staying home by not paying those high pries for tickets at worst. This is why I personally like the idea of what Jim Mason and Chris Komnick proposed to DCI concerning the 'entertainment' aspect of judging within GE. It should be about 'the audience' not the edification of the GE judge.

If the dresses used by the Troopers turns out to be an obscure reference of some kind that changes the implications of the show, would you feel cheated? Not knowing it means by definition you wouldn't care. Right?

The Wizard of Oz has many discussions about it's deeper meaning, which may or may not be correct. Either way it shouldn't detract from the enjoyment.

No, only the Crown, BD, and Madison shows require any explanation for the audience to feel connected (IMO) in the top 12, and only Crowns requires more than a short paragraph.

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Where did I ever say that '11 Cadets Angels and Demons show did not provide entertainment in a 'thoughtful manner'? I never stated anything of the sort. Angels and Demons provoked the thought process by having the audience weigh good vs. evil; it provoked the thought process of evaluating musical arrangements evoking the emotion behind the good vs. evil. However, it was also presented in a rather 'simplistic manner' which communicated to the audience those aspects without the need for the audience to engage in the process of 'historical intellectual education', or the need for the audience to deeply reflect the underlying web of 'intellectual meaning' through the staff creating a synopsis, or the need to for the audience comprehend 'experimental intellectual music theory'. Contrary to what Ivory Tower minds wish to believe, the Joe Schmoes have just as much importance within the world of DCI; and they are also are way, way, way in the majority as it applies to numbers in the audience. And it is the condescension of those Ivory Tower minded which attempt to 'educate' the Joe Schmoes, imo, that is taking what can be a great form of entertainment for a packed out sold out pro stadium full of paying patrons and turning it into an outlet for just a few elite intellectual mindset.

So according to your earlier Phantom example, if George Hopkins gave a talk discussion the meanings of the various elements in that show; the chief angel refers to Mary, say, and there are x number of demons, and the whole thing is according to a bible story. That fact alone would mean that the show requires 'historical intellectual education'? And that would, what, retroactively drive away fans? tongue.gif

Edit: Of course the above scenario is not true, it's just a what-if.

Edited by Pete Freedman
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[links didn't work]

Edited by DonR
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Pete; I will make it simple for you. If the corps presentation, apart from the title of the show, needs some deeper explaining then it, imo, falters on a grand scale. Of course there can be some deeper meaning imbedded; but even though there are some well placed deeper aspects in the movie Monty Python and the Holy Grail, understanding those imbedded meanings is not a necessary part to enjoying the 'entertainment' of the movie. The engagement of most DCI shows in this new millennium, and I mean most, is not in the 'entertainment' aspect but in the intellect itself. Why do you think most designers balked at the Ceserio GE sheets using the word 'entertain' and switched the nomenclature over to an intellectual word like 'Engage'.

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Pete; I will make it simple for you. If the corps presentation, apart from the title of the show, needs some deeper explaining then it, imo, falters on a grand scale. Of course there can be some deeper meaning imbedded; but even though there are some well placed deeper aspects in the movie Monty Python and the Holy Grail, understanding those imbedded meanings is not a necessary part to enjoying the 'entertainment' of the movie. The engagement of most DCI shows in this new millennium, and I mean most, is not in the 'entertainment' aspect but in the intellect itself. Why do you think most designers balked at the Ceserio GE sheets using the word 'entertain' and switched the nomenclature over to an intellectual word like 'Engage'.

Exactly. Isn't the same true of 2013 Blue Stars, Spirit, Blue Knights, Madison Scouts (excepting the reference to a book), Boston Crusaders, Cavaliers, Phantom Regiment, Bluecoats or Santa Clara? Any additional depth of information that may be available is purely optional.

Did anybody watch any of those shows and say, "I don't get it - It's too highbrow"?

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That's in the original dialogue, which you can read here. What wasn't in the original dialogue was the comment, "Everything must have an end except my love for you."

That dialogue you link to is shortened. Here's a better one: http://www.justsomelyrics.com/588739/michael-riesman,-philip-glass-ensemble-einstein-on-the-beach%3A-knee-play-5-lyrics.html

If you go down to "Lovers on a Bench" you will see the line "Everything must have an end except my love for you."

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Exactly. Isn't the same true of 2013 Blue Stars, Spirit, Blue Knights, Madison Scouts (excepting the reference to a book), Boston Crusaders, Cavaliers, Phantom Regiment, Bluecoats or Santa Clara? Any additional depth of information that may be available is purely optional.

Did anybody watch any of those shows and say, "I don't get it - It's too highbrow"?

Not 'exactly'.

1989 Cadets Les Mis and 2013 SCV Les Mis both pretty close to the original source material; both rather accessible to the audience.

1985 Blue Devils First Circle pretty close to the original and accessible to the audience; 2013 Blue Knights First Circle arranged with modern arranging stylistic tapestry hints of motif to evoke intellectual stimulation.

That is what I am referring to as it applies to accessibility.

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