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Stu

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Ehhhhhh... your premise is true in that most all of the DCI corps which met their demise from the '70s through the late '80s or early '90s were packed with youth having an average age of HS. And that demise was not because the drum corps activity got worse, but because the HS programs got better and many school band programs grew to being more qualitative than a plethora of the corps which folded. But today, while some DCI corps are still filled with HS age youth, the higher the DCI competitive rankings the higher the average age where many corps now have youth 18, the summer after HS graduation, to 22. So, I do not see high school summer band camps as a major issue today. However, I do see the national push for increasing scholastic summer programs (football camps, soccer camps, baseball camps, cheer leading camps, all of which utilize the facilities), combined with the national trend of starting the HS academic year in early to mid August, way earlier than Labor Day, as now now becoming a huge problem; not so much with DCI membership, but with corps housing all throughout the summer.

I do think high school programs have improved over the years, and today many of the young people in drum corps are products if these excellent programs, but if you look at areas where drum corps was strongest back in the day, it's not where the hotbeds of drum corps once were and two examples would be Massachusetts and New Jersey.

In the DCI era, Massachusetts had three well known and well loved drum corps: Boston Crusaders, 27th Lancers, and North Star. There were other very good corps as well, namely Holy Family Defenders, Pembroke Imperials, St. Francis Sancians, IC Reveries, and Beverly Cardinals. Though they competed prior to DCI, some may recall names such as St, Kevin's Emerald Knights, the Majestic Knights, and Queensmen. There were also many local favorites. When 27th Lancers folded in 1986, there were very few corps left and I believe since 1987 Boston Crusaders have been eth only corps to compete in World Class (East Coast Jazz and Citations were Open Class) Now Massachusetts high schools od have some very good marching bands who compete, I don't know that any of them compete in YEA or BOA. and while there have been some excellent bands, none have been at the high competitive levels of the drum corps Massachusetts produced.

In New Jersey, the saying sued to go "If you were in the top 5 in New Jersey, you were in the top 10 nationally..." That was a bit before my time, and I am not sure Corpsreps or From the Pressbox would agree, and while l I know there are some excellent bands from New Jersey, I do not believe they dominate the scene.

It's also interesting that Florida and Texas have a host of excellent bands, but Florida has yet to maintain corps for a substantial period of time and whiel Sky Ryders called Texas home for a while and Crossmen have relocated to Texas, Texas has not had a native born corps last all that long.

Excellent band programs do produce many of today's marching members, but they have little of anything to do with the demise of drum corps, rather they filled the gap drum corps left after they disbanded.

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You can not count the amount of drumline battle teams or soundsport teams. The concept is new and there is no championship, the were some groups at finals to test the waters.

I don't see a merger in the near future:

DCA is in the North East. If you tell DCA corps their finals is west of PA, many won't make the trip. DCI is national. They are different.

DCI has numerous full time people, from DCI staff, to corps staff, to people making their living on corps. Does DCA have anyone doing corps full time?

7 DCI directors don't even want the rest of DCI involved, do you think they would welcome splitting their candy with DCA corps? The answer is NO.

Egos. Both circuits have egos. I don't see either circuit giving up control to others.

DCI is a youth activity, DCA welcomes older folks. I know that many DCA corps are young, but that doesn't change the perception of the public. I personally don't have a problem donating to DCI to support kids. I would rather not donate to support a 25, 30, or 50 year old to march. They have jobs and can pay for it themselves. That's the way I feel and I think others do as well.

I personally like the idea of mixed shows, we should be helping each other out. Their is no reason a "landlocked" DCA corps should not be welcome to a close DCI show. It is also great when a DCI corps makes an appearance in DCA. But, the shows are different, they just are. Let's keep it the way it is.

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I personally don't have a problem donating to DCI to support kids. I would rather not donate to support a 25, 30, or 50 year old to march. They have jobs and can pay for it themselves. That's the way I feel and I think others do as well.

Are you as tough on other non-profit arts organizations in which adults participate, like theatre companies and symphony orchestras, as you are on DCA? As noted earlier, these groups would not survive without donations. (And unlike DCA, in which the participants pay to play, those companies typically pay their performers.)

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Are you as tough on other non-profit arts organizations in which adults participate, like theatre companies and symphony orchestras, as you are on DCA? As noted earlier, these groups would not survive without donations. (And unlike DCA, in which the participants pay to play, those companies typically pay their performers.)

I did say personally, so yes, I am as tough on other groups. In general I choose not to donate money so adults can have fun. That's not to say I won't buy a ticket or a tee shirt or a program. DCI and DCA are different in the membership they serve. That is not meant to be a slam on DCA.

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Ok all you DCA people who post in the DCI World Class section please reply to the following:

DCI has 23 active top-tier corps

DCA has 12 active top-tier corps

DCI has 14 active second-tier corps

DCA has 11 second-tier corps

DCI has 14 DrumlineBattle and 2 Soundsport groups, (16 total) with Star United being a crossover.

DCA has 4 mini-corps with Star United being a cross over

DCI has way more combined show audience attendance numbers than DCA

Question: Why, then, should DCI follow the lead of DCA?

Man I sure do like waffles!

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Well I never heard this " In New Jersey, the saying sued to go "If you were in the top 5 in New Jersey, you were in the top 10 nationally. "

BUT

I do know growing up in New Jersey, "The Drum Corps State" , at the Time. That 3 other State's fought hard to be the "Drum Corps State": Mass., Wisc., along with Ill., to claim that Title also. Back in the Stone Age. You know the late 1950's & 1960's for instance. When I first entered Corps. A first GOAL was to make the TOP 10 in NJ States. Then after that. The Harder GOAL, make the Top 5. You KNEW you were not going to win. Having 3 or 4 National Contenders in State's every year. But you busted your back side to move up in a VERY tough area.

.

Edited by 2B or not 2B
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As most readers know I've seen or marched in every DCI finals since 1975. These past two seasons (12-13) are the first DCA Championships I've been to since 1981. I've been to 1 other DCA show since 1981 Hershey 2004.

To me:

DCI is an excellent meal. DCA Championships are like a great dessert.

DCI is more cerebral. DCA is more Visceral.

I enjoy both very much!

Honestly, I get more chills and goose bumps at DCA shows.

Edited by boxingfred
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I do think high school programs have improved over the years, and today many of the young people in drum corps are products if these excellent programs, but if you look at areas where drum corps was strongest back in the day, it's not where the hotbeds of drum corps once were and two examples would be Massachusetts and New Jersey.

In the DCI era, Massachusetts had three well known and well loved drum corps: Boston Crusaders, 27th Lancers, and North Star. There were other very good corps as well, namely Holy Family Defenders, Pembroke Imperials, St. Francis Sancians, IC Reveries, and Beverly Cardinals. Though they competed prior to DCI, some may recall names such as St, Kevin's Emerald Knights, the Majestic Knights, and Queensmen. There were also many local favorites. When 27th Lancers folded in 1986, there were very few corps left and I believe since 1987 Boston Crusaders have been eth only corps to compete in World Class (East Coast Jazz and Citations were Open Class) Now Massachusetts high schools od have some very good marching bands who compete, I don't know that any of them compete in YEA or BOA. and while there have been some excellent bands, none have been at the high competitive levels of the drum corps Massachusetts produced.

Excellent band programs do produce many of today's marching members, but they have little of anything to do with the demise of drum corps, rather they filled the gap drum corps left after they disbanded.

Corps were dying out all the time, including the time well before the rise of competitive MB, only as they died out through the 70's and 80's, few rose to take their place. The world got more expensive; it was tough to put together a mom and pop operation anymore....fuel costs, insurance, meals, staff, equipment, rehearsal space...these things became far too expensive as the VFW/AL/CYO and PAL continued to pull away their support.

Here in NJ, that reduction in local drum corps was offset by the huge rise in local competitive MB in many suburban towns. The area that remained underserved was the urban areas, where few bands were competing in corps-style shows. The decline in NJ urban corps started before DCI ever came along.

BTW...there are many Mass bands that compete in YEA!, among them the marvelous King Philip and Dartmouth bands, both VERY high level programs.

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I have no doubt that you are correct in that assertion.

But...in this day and age, a lot of how school activities are managed are by setting across-the-board policies, so bias and favoritism can't be alleged by parents. What if a child has a conflict due to, say, a Science camp, Model UN, or other non-music activity...or even a music activity not related to drum corps (e.g. Interlochen or another music camp)? If the drum corps member is permitted to miss camp and march, you can be darn sure the parents of the other kid will march on up to the admin and raise holy heck if their child is not permitted to belong because of a different outside conflict. Getting the administration PO'd is not the best way to engender warm feelings about the music program.

I understand what you're saying, and the potential for problems. But I would separate Model UN or other non-music activities from another music-related activity (especially a marching music activity coming into marching band season). But I guess that comes down to opinion.

A kid representing Zambia for a week of Model UN doesn't compare to a baritone player from Bluecoats in preparation and ability to produce for the band program.

Garry in Vegas

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