Jump to content

When will Eastern corps travel (Mid)West?


Recommended Posts

Maybe I missed a post along the way. Did anyone explain how it is "for the good of the activity" to have corps travel more?

Nope. Not yet, anyway. Maybe your post will generate some of that. Personally, I don't see how one of the top couple DCA corps making a single trip someplace far away will have any impact on DCA, esp given the huge costs (read Amy's post about bus costs alone), but maybe someone can come up with a rationale.

DCA is still primarily a Northeast circuit, when you look at the season on fromthepressbox. There are only four DCA shows outside of the Northeast where there are at least 4 DCA corps competing...Racine, two in MN and one in GA, all of them in early/mid August. On top of that, at each of the shows, there are only two Open class corps competing, if a 15-point spread can be called 'competing'. Even in June there are DCA shows in the Northeast with 5 Open class corps.

One reason the dropping of Empire is so scary to me is that DCA needs to remain strong and viable in the Northeast for there to even be a DCA. Hopefully Bush and the Sunrisers continue their Open class resurgence, Fusion can continue to be competitive, and that C2 thrives. IMO if the Northeast portion of DCA drops below "critical mass", the circuit would have a tough time surviving. "Weekend-only" and "Nationwide exposure" only work when there is a strong core in at lest one area to provide a solid structure for the organization.

  • Like 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I understand. Family was there at that time.

Yes, added fees were assessed for those trips, but....

All I will say as well.

yup.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

At least some people are thinking with their heads now instead of with their hearts. When I feel I'm thinking with my head more than others it scares me since some personality tests indicate I may not have a brain on the left side of my head. :satisfied:

Don asked a good question about Westshore and I'll try and make it short- TRY... and also try and make it pertinent to the thread. Some folks here would do well to pick up on some of what made the organization successful. I know there are corps out there in DCA now using the same basic model that was used from 1974 to 1983. Westshore used a very basic plan and some good fortune, mainly the plan- which everyone in the corps easily understood and totally bought into. The corps went from a dead last 15th place with a score of 41 in 1974 to pushing for DCA titles in 82 and 83. How? Jim covered 74 to 79, I'll cover 79 to 84.

-Fantastic management. The more I age, the more I respect and admire Larry Hershman, Chuck Saia, and Craig Kern for making sure the business aspects of the corps were very well managed. The corps finances were extremely transparent, a business meeting was held every year where the corps finances and balance sheets were distributed to the membership and Larry carefully explained where the money was going and how we were doing financially. One thing impressed upon us was that Larry planned for worst case scenarios, and the the more successful we were, the more DCA prize money we got at the time, and it was actually helping to keep dues down and to enable the corps to do things we otherwise would not be doing, so being successful helped the cash flow as well as was fun. We didn't have to worry about buses, planning, everything was in place. No Chinese fire drills, no double talk.

-What was "the Plan"? Simple. Do better than last year and place higher. It was later refined to do better every rehearsal than the previous one. Very understandable to a 16 year old rookie kid like myself and to my 15 year old sister when she came on board. That goal was very internalized with all of us. The setback in 1981 really I think lit a fire under everyone, membership and management, and we strove to correct what went wrong and do better.

-We were extremely rangy and opportunistic. When Yankee-Rebels/Southwind went under, we got a core of vets who knew the game, and set mostly positive examples, emphasis mostly... :satisfied: to us kids. I learned a lot from them what to do and what not to do. The corps also was recruiting kids like myself, the Central PA region was full of good corps-style competition bands where some of us kids wanted more than marching next to kids who mommy and daddy made them have to march, and didn't have the money for DCI, or couldn't travel to Philly, Pittsburgh, or Bayonne. We were a pretty goofy but mostly good and somewhat well behaved bunch of kids, but the trick was, Don, we were musically savvy, pretty well-trained when we showed up, and were very, very teachable. By 1982, we had 20 year olds with 4 or more years in the trenches. yeah young, but very experienced, hungry as heck, and very teachable by very, very good instructors.

When Larry left in 83, it did something to the corps, took the wind out of the sails, that combined with some issues with ringchasers messing up the zen dropped us to 4th.

1984, the corps pretty much folded, new management stepped in, I was getting ready for a change in colleges and majors and was taking a break from it. Dan Bowman, the next corps director called us up after the July Carlisle show, asked if I wanted to go on board for a "6-week-wonder corps", I was board out of my mind, I said, "yeah". Guys like Fawber and I came out of the woodwork, we kept the corps together, showed up at DCA Prelims with 6 practices and a thrown together show and still managed to beat 4 corps that had been at it all year, and honked them off.

Doing that kept the corps alive and stable enough for others like Jeff to get on board. I tried to come back, various things just made that not possible. Other opportunities presented themselves, actually at one point, for which I am still thankful for. Without that thrown together corps in 1984, there wouldn't be the 96 champions. I enjoyed that experience greatly, had far more fun than in 83 when we were on the verge of clocking one another half the time, and still have friends from that corps that I only did that one year with.

I just hope some people can glean a few lessons from this for their corps' future.

Right now, look at Fusion. It is NO coincidence people like myself and others from Westshore in my era get the same vibe from them when we see them. Steady improvement, good infrastructure/managament. Also, Cincinnati Tradition has been quietly doing much the same thing we did to build the organization, and that's no coincidence. :satisfied:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Nope. Not yet, anyway. Maybe your post will generate some of that. Personally, I don't see how one of the top couple DCA corps making a single trip someplace far away will have any impact on DCA, esp given the huge costs (read Amy's post about bus costs alone), but maybe someone can come up with a rationale.

DCA is still primarily a Northeast circuit, when you look at the season on fromthepressbox. There are only four DCA shows outside of the Northeast where there are at least 4 DCA corps competing...Racine, two in MN and one in GA, all of them in early/mid August. On top of that, at each of the shows, there are only two Open class corps competing, if a 15-point spread can be called 'competing'. Even in June there are DCA shows in the Northeast with 5 Open class corps.

One reason the dropping of Empire is so scary to me is that DCA needs to remain strong and viable in the Northeast for there to even be a DCA. Hopefully Bush and the Sunrisers continue their Open class resurgence, Fusion can continue to be competitive, and that C2 thrives. IMO if the Northeast portion of DCA drops below "critical mass", the circuit would have a tough time surviving. "Weekend-only" and "Nationwide exposure" only work when there is a strong core in at lest one area to provide a solid structure for the organization.

Is it for the "good of the activity" that non Eastern corps travel to finals and other East shows every year? I would say that it is. The expansion of the all age brand throughout the nation has lead to increased exposure and quality of all DCA corps. Do you feel that the Bucs would be as good as they are if MBI wasn't around? Would class A be better without the Govies? Renegades, CV, Alliance,etc. they have all brought something great to DCA. Losing non-eastern corps from finals would hurt the activity.

I would say that it would have the same result eventually if eastern corps perform in different parts of the country. That competition and exposure of the true quality of the all-age activity would lead to increased awareness, financial support, recruiting, audience, and branding for DCA. It may encourage more to take an interest in the weekend model for drum corps, one that I feel may be the future for our activity, and therefore increase the quality and size of our participants.

Sure, when you think on the small scale of what is best for this year, "our corps," or our region, it makes a ton of sense to keep with the status quo. It works well for the Eastern Corps, but does it work well for the future of the all age activity? I think that it would be better to take the longer view. The one that is beyond the one bus bill, or the 200 extra people in the stands. The view that we all get better when we support each other. The view that even though it is a pain, traveling brings the non-eastern corps together. It is a model that can work if there is a priority to growing the activity and not just looking out for ourselves.

Obviously, it takes planning and can't be done every year initially, but shouldn't we be spreading our brand of drum corps in as many parts of the country as possible? We have something great to offer.

I think that if it is an established show with a decent facility and audience at first it might work. Maybe a new show eventually, but not for a while.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

At least some people are thinking with their heads now instead of with their hearts. When I feel I'm thinking with my head more than others it scares me since some personality tests indicate I may not have a brain on the left side of my head. :satisfied:/>

Don asked a good question about Westshore and I'll try and make it short- TRY... and also try and make it pertinent to the thread. Some folks here would do well to pick up on some of what made the organization successful. I know there are corps out there in DCA now using the same basic model that was used from 1974 to 1983. Westshore used a very basic plan and some good fortune, mainly the plan- which everyone in the corps easily understood and totally bought into. The corps went from a dead last 15th place with a score of 41 in 1974 to pushing for DCA titles in 82 and 83. How? Jim covered 74 to 79, I'll cover 79 to 84.

-Fantastic management. The more I age, the more I respect and admire Larry Hershman, Chuck Saia, and Craig Kern for making sure the business aspects of the corps were very well managed. The corps finances were extremely transparent, a business meeting was held every year where the corps finances and balance sheets were distributed to the membership and Larry carefully explained where the money was going and how we were doing financially. One thing impressed upon us was that Larry planned for worst case scenarios, and the the more successful we were, the more DCA prize money we got at the time, and it was actually helping to keep dues down and to enable the corps to do things we otherwise would not be doing, so being successful helped the cash flow as well as was fun. We didn't have to worry about buses, planning, everything was in place. No Chinese fire drills, no double talk.

-What was "the Plan"? Simple. Do better than last year and place higher. It was later refined to do better every rehearsal than the previous one. Very understandable to a 16 year old rookie kid like myself and to my 15 year old sister when she came on board. That goal was very internalized with all of us. The setback in 1981 really I think lit a fire under everyone, membership and management, and we strove to correct what went wrong and do better.

-We were extremely rangy and opportunistic. When Yankee-Rebels/Southwind went under, we got a core of vets who knew the game, and set mostly positive examples, emphasis mostly... :satisfied:/> to us kids. I learned a lot from them what to do and what not to do. The corps also was recruiting kids like myself, the Central PA region was full of good corps-style competition bands where some of us kids wanted more than marching next to kids who mommy and daddy made them have to march, and didn't have the money for DCI, or couldn't travel to Philly, Pittsburgh, or Bayonne. We were a pretty goofy but mostly good and somewhat well behaved bunch of kids, but the trick was, Don, we were musically savvy, pretty well-trained when we showed up, and were very, very teachable. By 1982, we had 20 year olds with 4 or more years in the trenches. yeah young, but very experienced, hungry as heck, and very teachable by very, very good instructors.

When Larry left in 83, it did something to the corps, took the wind out of the sails, that combined with some issues with ringchasers messing up the zen dropped us to 4th.

1984, the corps pretty much folded, new management stepped in, I was getting ready for a change in colleges and majors and was taking a break from it. Dan Bowman, the next corps director called us up after the July Carlisle show, asked if I wanted to go on board for a "6-week-wonder corps", I was board out of my mind, I said, "yeah". Guys like Fawber and I came out of the woodwork, we kept the corps together, showed up at DCA Prelims with 6 practices and a thrown together show and still managed to beat 4 corps that had been at it all year, and honked them off.

Doing that kept the corps alive and stable enough for others like Jeff to get on board. I tried to come back, various things just made that not possible. Other opportunities presented themselves, actually at one point, for which I am still thankful for. Without that thrown together corps in 1984, there wouldn't be the 96 champions. I enjoyed that experience greatly, had far more fun than in 83 when we were on the verge of clocking one another half the time, and still have friends from that corps that I only did that one year with.

I just hope some people can glean a few lessons from this for their corps' future.

Right now, look at Fusion. It is NO coincidence people like myself and others from Westshore in my era get the same vibe from them when we see them. Steady improvement, good infrastructure/managament. Also, Cincinnati Tradition has been quietly doing much the same thing we did to build the organization, and that's no coincidence. :satisfied:/>

being a kid in the period covered, but also writing the history of Westshore for the DCW book, I went out of my to talk to a lot of people.

In the 50's, after the initial success, people started getting burnt out...life got in the way, some thought it was getting too serious...so Shore merged with the Bonnie Scots. But the drive to go out and get serious never really got going, being a director took more time than people wanted to commit, and in the early 70's, the big issue was about letting women in. hence the fold in 72.

Post Dubs covered period, managament basically tried to rebuild the brand. it took a while, as DCA was slowly changing, some of the design team wasn't changing with it. 84-86 saw the corps out of finals, but in 87, even with as hot of a mess as that show was, seeds were being sewn. Again, a stable group of kids came in, and many stayed through the run. Dan Bowman and his team of Dick eschenman and John Chamberlain helped keep the business side going, and as staf changed, philosophy changed, boom back in finals in 88, and some success in 2 years...a legit contender in 90.

the 90 results burnt some membership out, so a minor rebuild happened, then Dan Bowman stepped down as director. Dan Rippon came on board, but real life got in the way, there was money owed, the shows the corps was pciking weren't drawing bodies.....the corps technically folded in October 94. Amonth later Jerry Mace was at the helm, some design folks from the 89-90 success were back and a serious recruiting drive went live...for kids, and vets alike. Boom 10th to 2nd, and then 1st in 96. However the win in 96 led many to retire, the focus being split with the attempt at the junior corps and all kinds of business craziness killed it. The admin team after jerry tried in 98, but it never got going for a variety of reasons I just have no desire to delve back into.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Is it for the "good of the activity" that non Eastern corps travel to finals and other East shows every year? I would say that it is. The expansion of the all age brand throughout the nation has lead to increased exposure and quality of all DCA corps. Do you feel that the Bucs would be as good as they are if MBI wasn't around? Would class A be better without the Govies? Renegades, CV, Alliance,etc. they have all brought something great to DCA. Losing non-eastern corps from finals would hurt the activity.

I would say that it would have the same result eventually if eastern corps perform in different parts of the country. That competition and exposure of the true quality of the all-age activity would lead to increased awareness, financial support, recruiting, audience, and branding for DCA. It may encourage more to take an interest in the weekend model for drum corps, one that I feel may be the future for our activity, and therefore increase the quality and size of our participants.

Sure, when you think on the small scale of what is best for this year, "our corps," or our region, it makes a ton of sense to keep with the status quo. It works well for the Eastern Corps, but does it work well for the future of the all age activity? I think that it would be better to take the longer view. The one that is beyond the one bus bill, or the 200 extra people in the stands. The view that we all get better when we support each other. The view that even though it is a pain, traveling brings the non-eastern corps together. It is a model that can work if there is a priority to growing the activity and not just looking out for ourselves.

Obviously, it takes planning and can't be done every year initially, but shouldn't we be spreading our brand of drum corps in as many parts of the country as possible? We have something great to offer.

I think that if it is an established show with a decent facility and audience at first it might work. Maybe a new show eventually, but not for a while.

I agree with a good chunk of this.....but....here's the thing. Do we know say Bucs or Cabs going out there will draw that much interest? There are still way too many people going to shows in the midwest that blow off the DCA corps. Bringing Bucs or Cabs in isn't going to change a lot of their minds.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

To add to Ws post about Larrys transparency...

Around 1977 as we were trying to break into DCA membership (Top 10) and doing shows in both circuits (DCA/RCA). We're standing to do the last run thru at our weekday practice and tradition is we get the info on the next show at that time (nice way to keep us quiet).

Larry: "... and this is a DCA show"

Newbie: "Why are we doing a DCA show and come in last. Why don't we do an RCA show and win for once?"

Larry: <pause two seconds.. NOT a good sign> "Because... we can get more money coming in last at DCA than coming in first at RCA.... THAT'S why". <tone of voice that dropped the tempetature 20 degrees>

Never seemed to be a secret tht we had red ink coming out of the yingee and we would be willing to do almost any gig if the $$$ was right cuz we needed it. Hell we even played at the re-opening of a lumber yard (where Ollies is now on Rt 22 past Colonial Park). Stuck around 3-4 hours to play a concert every hour. Only time I ever got sick from the sun as we were on asphalt wearing pants and corps jackets. But.. all part of the long term plan that had us going from last at Prelims to 5th at Finals from 1974-1980.

And that 1984 corps... reformed to do parades (why I joined). Then at the 4th of July parades break members were askd if they would stick around to do Prelims if a show could be slapped together. Wasn't until the pieces (members/show/etc) were worked out did it begin to happen. Still can't believe it.... and I was there...

Edited by JimF-LowBari
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I agree with a good chunk of this.....but....here's the thing. Do we know say Bucs or Cabs going out there will draw that much interest? There are still way too many people going to shows in the midwest that blow off the DCA corps. Bringing Bucs or Cabs in isn't going to change a lot of their minds.

I don't disagree that in the short term there would need to be some investment and small gains, but having real competition and more quality would encourage attendance and awareness of the DCA product.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I agree with a good chunk of this.....but....here's the thing. Do we know say Bucs or Cabs going out there will draw that much interest? There are still way too many people going to shows in the midwest that blow off the DCA corps. Bringing Bucs or Cabs in isn't going to change a lot of their minds.

Yes. Also the epic fails of the Chicago, Texas, and Winston-Salem events are fresh on planner's minds. No one, I repeat no one wants to be "that guy or gal" who blows up their corps by running them out of money/being irresponsible and ends up wondering why everyone walks in the other direction when they see them at a corps related event. Westshore people go up to Larry when they see him- I'd rather be in those shoes.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I agree with a good chunk of this.....but....here's the thing. Do we know say Bucs or Cabs going out there will draw that much interest? There are still way too many people going to shows in the midwest that blow off the DCA corps. Bringing Bucs or Cabs in isn't going to change a lot of their minds.

Well I guess we'll never know until they try it.

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...