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When will Eastern corps travel (Mid)West?


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As Amy said, sure they sold roughly 200 more tickets than last year ( i was 2 of them....had a month old baby last year, couldn't go). But expenses went up. Jimmy and the committee at Bucs have done a wonderful job since taking over in the 90's, but they're not idiots......they are not going to willingly lose money "for the good of the activity". And if they were to work a deal that covered their expenses, the host is sure to take a bath. Looking at guidestar no one's really making much on their shows out there unless it involves DCI corps.

AND, the 200 extra tickets sold didn't cover the extra fee to bring the big name corps in. I was surprised that there wasn't a bigger crowd at Downingtown. Some of the 200 extra people would have been there even if we had the same line-up as last year, most probably came to see MBI. It comes down to the host corps making less money on a show that's their fundraiser than some of the other competing corps are being paid to be there. You never know how many people will buy a ticket, so you're putting it on the line every time you run a show. Corps are sticking their necks out sponsoring shows, and corps are sticking their necks out going to shows that may not make enough money to pay them. Imagine traveling 18 hours to a show, then finding that spectators didn't show up, so your corps goes home without a check?

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It comes down to the host corps making less money on a show that's their fundraiser than some of the other competing corps are being paid to be there. You never know how many people will buy a ticket, so you're putting it on the line every time you run a show. Corps are sticking their necks out sponsoring shows, and corps are sticking their necks out going to shows that may not make enough money to pay them. Imagine traveling 18 hours to a show, then finding that spectators didn't show up, so your corps goes home without a check?

1. I don't think every corps considers their home show an income for a corps. I think it would be safe to say that some corps consider their home show a success if it comes out even or only slightly over budget.

2. I thought DCA required that the corps be payed if they perform, even if the show didn't make enough money to pay them. In other words, the show sponsor would lose money if they didn't get enough ticket sales to pay the corps.

Edited by shhmatt
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Atlanta to Hornell...20 Hours

Atlanta to Downingtown...18 hours

Atlanta to Annapolis...14 hours

Not trying to rock the boat...just sayin'.

Dan

Been down to Atlanta myself from down here, Dan, even the *flight* was long. I know it ain't hay to come North, either. :worthy:

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Been down to Atlanta myself from down here, Dan, even the *flight* was long. I know it ain't hay to come North, either. worthy.gif

I gotta say we at CV absolutely LOVE to come north and compete against the "big boys". It makes us better and I think is good for everyone. I wish it didn't cost us in the neighborhood of $18,000 every time we made the trip. We would be up there every weekend if it weren't for the finances. It is what it is and we knew the job was tough when we took it. All we can do is try to keep getting better every year and hopefully we will be knocking on the door soon!

Dan

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I'm not every fan. I follow DCA religiously and base my summer plans around their schedule if at all possible.But here;'s the thing...of the people that arent coming to the shows out there, how many of them even know who Bucs or Cabs even are?Trust me I want it to work for you and everyone. But I also know what a pain in the ### it was driving a bazillion miles and playing to a not packed house in 89, and how many #### parades we had to do the rest of the year to make the books balance after that trip. And if you look at our visual scores in 89, you can see the time spent on parades would have been a helluva lot better spent rehearsing to get those scores up.

Here's what I say...talk on DCP is cheap. Make the offer they can't refuse. if they refuse then it's on them.

:ph34r:/>/>

OK - point taken...but to answer to the highlighted part of the quote..

Yes there are some fans out here that know who the Cabs and the Bucs are..Homers only know the Bucs by reputation and media..The Cabs were one of 3 Eastern corps that were here last - 1975 Legion..OUt of those 3, only the Cabs are left(Cru and Matadors) When Bill put out the idea of doing a show in Racine..My experience tends to agree with that..I cannot remember a "senior" show in or around Chicaqo that would EVER draw a big crowd..Chicago has NEVER been a place that has been able to market an all-age corps (no offense to those that tried in the past, but they tried to remain in the 60's and 70's from a program point of view)

How many of those bazillion mile road trips have you made since '89? This ain't '89 Jeff. I'd like to think that other corps out east (or down South)won't be so short sighted to think that DCA Central will do all the work for them..I mean heck, nobody did that for MBI or CV or Heat Wave, et al.

BTW - I made those bazillion mile road trips in 89,90 and 92, and my son was JUST a year old when I got on the bus to go to Allentown in 89..along with 90 and 92.

Trust me - all that's being suggested here is a dialogue, and while apprehension is paramount, MBI's been at this awhile..There might be some angles easier seen from the West (or South) Experience is STILL the best teacher..a fresh look may make all the difference.

AND IT STILL TAKES TWO TO TANGO..

Pat

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I would think George Hopkins would tell you C2/YEA! is not a loaded money powerhouse. :wink:/>

Fiscal prudence is important, Planning for the future existence and long term stability of a corps is. IMHO, based on what happened to my corps it takes precedence over just about anything else. Nothing, I repeat nothing should risk that, period. Ask any ex-Westshoremen. Long term stability wasn't a goal. DCA Champs 1996, finished by 2000. Some of it involved a long distance trip.

Will discuss the thread more, dinner calls, many interesting ideas.

I get the Fiscal Prudence thing. I know Drum Corps are not loaded with money. I just don't understand why Corps West and South of NY are expected to travel to NY for finals and that's OK but the idea of Eastern Corps traveling out of their zone is just out of the question.

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1. I don't think every corps considers their home show an income for a corps. I think it would be safe to say that some corps consider their home show a success if it comes out even or only slightly over budget.

2. I thought DCA required that the corps be payed if they perform, even if the show didn't make enough money to pay them. In other words, the show sponsor would lose money if they didn't get enough ticket sales to pay the corps.

Obviously I cannot speak for other corps, but in the matter of the Kilts home show (Kiltie Klassic) we consider breaking even the first goal; that happens we are happy and the rest is just the cherry on top. For us it's a matter of actually giving back to the community and also to the activity in general. A show at Historic Horlick Field is quite a positive memorable experience for all those involved. Racine is one of the few remaining cradles of the entire drum corps activity; and the folks of Racine are the most drum corps savvy in the world.

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Is it for the "good of the activity" that non Eastern corps travel to finals and other East shows every year? I would say that it is.

For championships, sure. For other shows, that is debatable. Is there some indispensable service being performed "for the good of the activity" when MBI or CV appears at a regular season show in the Northeast? Not that I am aware of. They make those appearances because they are highly competitive DCA corps, seeking a level of competition that they are not exposed to in their own home region... and they have enough people willing to take on the additional commitment of one more long weekend trip, with the time off work and the added fundraising that entails. Northeastern corps have competition at all levels in their own region, and thus are not compelled to leave the area just to find other corps in their peer group.

Rather than compel even more corps to travel out of region, I would rather see corps travel less. I would rather see Midwest corps like Kilties strengthen so that MBI has the option of staying home and still facing competitive challenges. I would rather see South corps like Carolina Gold, Alliance, etc., strengthen so that CV has the option of staying home and still facing competitive challenges. I would rather see growth to the point where not a single DCA corps is geographically isolated from competitive peers.

Now, my understanding is that DCA has a free market model for booking corps into shows. If I have this correct, there is nothing stopping a Midwest or South show host from simply offering an Northeastern corps however much money it will take to entice them to travel out of region. Since that is not already happening, that tells me that people better informed than me have decided it is not worth the expense to bring Northeastern corps to Midwest or South shows. For that to change, those of you advocating for it need to change the math with some combination of increased marketing and/or financial support, such that it becomes feasible for a non-NE show host to attract a NE corps.

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For championships, sure. For other shows, that is debatable. Is there some indispensable service being performed "for the good of the activity" when MBI or CV appears at a regular season show in the Northeast? Not that I am aware of. They make those appearances because they are highly competitive DCA corps, seeking a level of competition that they are not exposed to in their own home region... and they have enough people willing to take on the additional commitment of one more long weekend trip, with the time off work and the added fundraising that entails. Northeastern corps have competition at all levels in their own region, and thus are not compelled to leave the area just to find other corps in their peer group.

Rather than compel even more corps to travel out of region, I would rather see corps travel less. I would rather see Midwest corps like Kilties strengthen so that MBI has the option of staying home and still facing competitive challenges. I would rather see South corps like Carolina Gold, Alliance, etc., strengthen so that CV has the option of staying home and still facing competitive challenges. I would rather see growth to the point where not a single DCA corps is geographically isolated from competitive peers.

Now, my understanding is that DCA has a free market model for booking corps into shows. If I have this correct, there is nothing stopping a Midwest or South show host from simply offering an Northeastern corps however much money it will take to entice them to travel out of region. Since that is not already happening, that tells me that people better informed than me have decided it is not worth the expense to bring Northeastern corps to Midwest or South shows. For that to change, those of you advocating for it need to change the math with some combination of increased marketing and/or financial support, such that it becomes feasible for a non-NE show host to attract a NE corps.

Yes, there is an indispensable service being performed. It strengthens the activity when more corps are better and connected to each other. It is hard to quantify, but the value is there and not just for the traveling group. It is good for the whole activity when All-age groups excel. Certainly, it would be best to have multiple strong regions. DCA corps traveling doesn't take away from the potential of strong regions.

That is the point. Even with the generous help from show sponsors, corps like MBI don't break even on these trips out east. Not even a 5th of the cost is covered. It is an investment that is being borne by non-eastern corps alone.

It is fine that the Eastern corps don't see the value in DCA becoming a national organization and don't want to lose their geographical advantage. It is a valid argument. I just feel that it is a bit shortsighted and in the long run, will hurt the potential of the activity.

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