Fred Windish Posted September 12, 2013 Share Posted September 12, 2013 This is a worthy discussion, to keep it rolling along, I offer the following question . . . . COULD THIS HAPPEN? A current, well-traveled corps decides it is extremely important to the overall health of DCA for an established eastern finalist corps to appear outside their usual region. So important, such corps determines IT will not make 2 trips to the NE next season, just one, to Rochester. Some of the money they would normally spend to perform early in the NE will instead be dedicated to bringing an eastern finalist corps into their remote location. Good move, or not? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeD Posted September 12, 2013 Share Posted September 12, 2013 Yes, there is an indispensable service being performed. It strengthens the activity when more corps are better and connected to each other. It is hard to quantify, but the value is there and not just for the traveling group. It is good for the whole activity when All-age groups excel. Certainly, it would be best to have multiple strong regions. DCA corps traveling doesn't take away from the potential of strong regions. But without the region itself being strong membership-wise and competitively, a one-shot trip by the Bucs or Cabs (and look at the posted 990 info for why that might not be feasible) would do little to improve the chosen region of travel. How many people, outside of the normal DCA fans already in existence in the area...who already attend the shows...would know or care who the Bucs and/or Cabs are? That is the point. Even with the generous help from show sponsors, corps like MBI don't break even on these trips out east. Not even a 5th of the cost is covered. It is an investment that is being borne by non-eastern corps alone. It is fine that the Eastern corps don't see the value in DCA becoming a national organization and don't want to lose their geographical advantage. It is a valid argument. I just feel that it is a bit shortsighted and in the long run, will hurt the potential of the activity. The difference is that while the Northeast area of DCA could still exist and have a full slate of relatively well-attended shows (corps and audience) whether or not the non-Northeast corps participate or not, I'm not sure the reverse is true, unless having 3 or 4 performances attached to DCI shows would be sufficient to maitain the membership interest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimF-LowBari Posted September 12, 2013 Share Posted September 12, 2013 (edited) It is fine that the Eastern corps don't see the value in DCA becoming a national organization and don't want to lose their geographical advantage. Calling shananingans on this one.... I just feel that it is a bit shortsighted and in the long run, will hurt the potential of the activity. But if the individual corps takes such a financial hit that it hurts or kills them it is not good for the corps or the activity either. And I'm talking NE and non-NE corps here. Edit: And don't see the sense in saying corps X makes the trip so other corps can make the trip. Just because my neighbor can drive a BMW doesn't mean I can afford one. Every persons and corps financial situation is unique. Edited September 12, 2013 by JimF-LowBari 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MidwestGiant Posted September 12, 2013 Share Posted September 12, 2013 This is a worthy discussion, to keep it rolling along, I offer the following question . . . . COULD THIS HAPPEN? A current, well-traveled corps decides it is extremely important to the overall health of DCA for an established eastern finalist corps to appear outside their usual region. So important, such corps determines IT will not make 2 trips to the NE next season, just one, to Rochester. Some of the money they would normally spend to perform early in the NE will instead be dedicated to bringing an eastern finalist corps into their remote location. Good move, or not? Yes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MidwestGiant Posted September 12, 2013 Share Posted September 12, 2013 Calling shananingans on this one.... But if the individual corps takes such a financial hit that it hurts or kills them it is not good for the corps or the activity either. And I'm talking NE and non-NE corps here. Edit: And don't see the sense in saying corps X makes the trip so other corps can make the trip. Just because my neighbor can drive a BMW doesn't mean I can afford one. Every persons and corps financial situation is unique. Ok, I'm through beating a dead horse. Most of us aren't decision makers for DCA corps anyway. No one wants a single trip to fold a corps, obviously... All I'm saying is that it is important (if we see the all-age activity as a national one) for Eastern corps to invest in that concept and travel every once in a while. This should be done in a well supported, well thought out manner every few years. Doing this would increase the brand of DCA and make the overall activity better. It should certainly be done in a fiscally responsible manner, but roadblocks and current situations shouldn't limit DCA from being a national organization. If being a national organization isn't really a priority, then that is fine, just stop saying that it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimF-LowBari Posted September 12, 2013 Share Posted September 12, 2013 All I'm saying is that it is important (if we see the all-age activity as a national one) for Eastern corps to invest in that concept and travel every once in a while. This should be done in a well supported, well thought out manner every few years. Doing this would increase the brand of DCA and make the overall activity better. OK and I've done that in the late 70s when DCA was trying to help the "Western" Sr corps by doing Canton, OH Sat night and Erie, PA Sun afternoon. At the time western Srs were OH Brass Factory, MBI and Chicago Connection. It should certainly be done in a fiscally responsible manner, but roadblocks and current situations shouldn't limit DCA from being a national organization. If being a national organization isn't really a priority, then that is fine, just stop saying that it is. IMO - the biggest priority for DCA and the All Age corps is survive for another year. And I'm not sure who is saying being National is a priority... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mellofello01 Posted September 12, 2013 Share Posted September 12, 2013 (edited) This isn't sudden... Traveling has always been a huge challenge for DCA corps. I'm happy to be corrected on this, but the only corps in my drum corps lifetime (i.e. since 1960) that has traveled without fear of it causing near-bankruptcy was Hawthorne, who made it to AL Championships year after year and never seemed worse for the wear. Ask someone (like Ironlips for example) from 1969 Sunrisers about travel to New Orleans. The stories are the stuff of legend. The "aircraft" is still discussed 40+ years later. With reverence, or perhaps fear. I applaud the corps that have traveled to the East to make DCA viable. Some, like Chicago Connection in 1977 seemed to be virtually done in by the travel (again, feel free to correct me if I have that wrong). They were great fun, and Chicago is just far, not F A R ! ! ! ! But it had it's affect. I don't have any answers. Even the East Coast Juniors have operated on lower budgets, and with higher stress levels vis a vis finances (if Crown is the exception that's great). A Cross-Country DCA would be great! DCA finals in Indianapolis or Chicago or (yeah baby) Dallas would be a blast - can you picture DCA heading to New Orleans? Keep your Police scanners on! But it's not sudden. A big trip was always hit the road before dawn, pull into a rehearsal site in time to get 3 or 4 hours in, shower and perform. Even more respect for Minnesota, Atlanta, Florida, California corps that have made it work. But not simple and not sudden. Ray, long time. Actually, the New Orleans "plane" trip to Nationals was in 1968. It was more fun than being shot out of cannon from Long Island and back. :thumbup:/>/>/>/>/> IIRC, the cost to each member was $50.00. $50.00 in 1968 had the same buying power as $338.64 in 2013. Annual inflation over this period was 4.34%.(from online inflation calculator) Still can see the hole in the rear cabin wall. It went from an umbrella tip poke hole to a gangster bullet hole in about 10 seconds. And that "emergency landing" from 20,000 feet was similar to being in the first car in the first seat going down the first hill on the Cyclone roller coaster in Coney Island. This while holding arms overhead yelling, "Look Ma, no hands" The ride down in the plane was somewhat longer. :tongue:/>/>/>/>/> Congrats on your induction into the WDCHoF. Well deserved. :beer:/>/> Take care, my friend. Steve edit: added ...calculator Edited September 12, 2013 by Mellofello01 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimF-LowBari Posted September 12, 2013 Share Posted September 12, 2013 (edited) I'm happy to be corrected on this, but the only corps in my drum corps lifetime (i.e. since 1960) that has traveled without fear of it causing near-bankruptcy was Hawthorne, who made it to AL Championships year after year and never seemed worse for the wear. Ask someone (like Ironlips for example) from 1969 Sunrisers about travel to New Orleans. The stories are the stuff of legend. The "aircraft" is still discussed 40+ years later. With reverence, or perhaps fear. I applaud the corps that have traveled to the East to make DCA viable. Some, like Chicago Connection in 1977 seemed to be virtually done in by the travel (again, feel free to correct me if I have that wrong). They were great fun, and Chicago is just far, not F A R ! ! ! ! Interesting that AL was at Nah'lens in 1969 and again in 1978. Will have to check how many corps went in 1969 but 1978 there were 7 Jrs and 2 Srs. The mentioned Chicago Connection was there and would love to know their reason for that trip. Westshoremen were the other corps and took 2 buses (23 hrs 45 mins on the way down) while some flew. Our main reason for going was supposedly (I never heard it myself) was BoD (or Hershan anyway) thought that an orange flag would add prestige and (more importantly) points to our future scores. Again part of the long term plan... Now if I could only remember the entire ride home as I hit 21 the week before *hic*.... Edited September 12, 2013 by JimF-LowBari Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mellofello01 Posted September 12, 2013 Share Posted September 12, 2013 (edited) Interesting that AL was at Nah'lens in 1969 and again in 1978. Will have to check how many corps went in 1969 but 1978 there were 7 Jrs and 2 Srs. The mentioned Chicago Connection was there and would love to know their reason for that trip. Westshoremen were the other corps and took 2 buses (23 hrs 45 mins on the way down) while some flew. Our main reason for going was supposedly (I never heard it myself) was BoD (or Hershan anyway) thought that an orange flag would add prestige and (more importantly) points to our future scores. Again part of the long term plan... Now if I could only remember the entire ride home as I hit 21 the week before *hic*.... Jim, Nah'lens ALNC was in 1968, if you are going to research it. See post above your post. Edited September 12, 2013 by Mellofello01 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimF-LowBari Posted September 12, 2013 Share Posted September 12, 2013 Jim, Nah'lens ALNC was in 1968, if you are going to research it. See post above your post. Thanks, have History of Drum Corps Vol I at home which is my main AL/VFW source. With Dicemans srcorps site right behind..... And to go Off Topic, think AL was supposed to go to N.O. in the early 60s but changed location a few months beforehand. Thinking people upset over the racism there at the time but might be thinking of the AFL All Star Game that was moved around the same year. AFL moved that game a few days before it was to be played. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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