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Aside from being associated with a large university and drafting off the alum/local affinity for that university? Nope, can't think of much. The average Big 10 band show is the musical equivalent of a Happy Meal. The only thing missing is the toy.

Not to mention the luxury of a captive audience there to see a football game. They can't all get a hot dog or relieve nature at the same time. Half of a 95,000 audience is still huge, and a gift that keeps on giving.

I'd bet those fans would cheer just as loudly if Crown performed halftime, after figuring out how to program for four sides of the field.

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Aside from being associated with a large university and drafting off the alum/local affinity for that university? Nope, can't think of much. The average Big 10 band show is the musical equivalent of a Happy Meal. The only thing missing is the toy.

Nothing funnier than a musical snob.

These Big 10 bands at which you look down your nose know what their purpose is. They are heavily non-music majors (likely because the music majors see themselves as too good for such pedestrian pursuits), and they do what they're there for- they fire up the crowd and provide entertainment at their level. Drum corps professional navel-gazers could learn something from this. But it's beneath them, I'm sure.

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These Big 10 bands at which you look down your nose know what their purpose is. They are heavily non-music majors (likely because the music majors see themselves as too good for such pedestrian pursuits), and they do what they're there for- they fire up the crowd and provide entertainment at their level. Drum corps professional navel-gazers could learn something from this. But it's beneath them, I'm sure.

Domino's outsells most good quality local pizza restaurants. I think Domino's pizza sucks too. Does that make me a "snob?"

Better a snob than an egalitarian who tries to claim that something that appeals to the lowest common denominator has value just BECAUSE it shoots so low.

Edited by Slingerland
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Domino's outsells most good quality local pizza restaurants. I think Domino's pizza sucks too. Does that make me a "snob?"

Better a snob than an egalitarian who tries to claim that something that appeals to the lowest common denominator has value just BECAUSE it shoots so low.

When you're not the main draw, you do what you can to get support from the university and the fans. They don't sell 100,000 tickets to see the marching band, but the football team sells that. The B1G bands are in a support role, their only job is to entertain the fans during halftime. Why shouldn't they get to have some fun? Not like they're severely sacrificing quality to do it. As much as people decry DCI shows for not being "entertaining" enough, it's weird to say that college band shows aren't high-brow enough.

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it's weird to say that college band shows aren't high-brow enough.

I never brought up "high brow." I simply said they're not good. Not "in comparison to drum corps" - they're not good all on their own.

I'm in the midwest, been exposed to Big 10 bands for 20 years, and have never seen one that didn't sound like a__. Yes, the performers are mostly not music majors; I don't care. You don't have to be a music major to understand how to play your instrument well in an ensemble setting.

The fact that the audiences don't care about any of that only underscores my initial point; that the audiences don't care because it's not the band they're there to see. Therefore, it's hard for anyone to argue that drum corps should be looking at those bands and asking if there's something drum corps can 'learn' from them.

Edited by Slingerland
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I never brought up "high brow." I simply said they're not good. Not "in comparison to drum corps" - they're not good all on their own.

I'm in the midwest, been exposed to Big 10 bands for 20 years, and have never seen one that didn't sound like a__. Yes, the performers are mostly not music majors; I don't care. You don't have to be a music major to understand how to play your instrument well in an ensemble setting.

The fact that the audiences don't care about any of that only underscores my initial point; that the audiences don't care because it's not the band they're there to see. Therefore, it's hard for anyone to argue that drum corps should be looking at those bands and asking if there's something drum corps can 'learn' from them.

Since you claim to have been "exposed" to Big 10 bands for "20 years" (a claim I find hard to believe, since they suck all on their own in your opinion - I can't imagine you'd watch them), you must know all about the 5th quarter. More people stay and watch that, each and every home game, than attend the annual DCI championship. The audience is there to watch the band. Your typical college marching band probably practices 2 1/2 hours per day, maybe 5 days a week, and puts on a new show each home game. And the members are full time students. Based on the time they have available to put into it, they do a pretty fine job. A typical drum corps show of today, played at a typical major college halftime, would probably be (1) ignored because it's so incredibly boring, or (2) laughed out of the stadium. I'm sure the prancing and emoting, not to mention the amps and electronics, would be mocked and ridiculed. These two mediums don't go together. Critiquing a college marching band performance through a drum corps performance lens is ridiculous. HOWEVER, you can look to how college marching bands do in reaching their audiences, vs. how drum corps do in reaching theirs. My claim is that these Big 10 marching bands know what their identities are, know their audiences better and perform to them better than drum corps do to their audiences. I think drum corps today don't really know what their identities are, who their audiences are, why they exist, or what the end game is. I have had kids both in drum corps and in college marching bands, and appreciate each for what they are individually. You cannot judge one against the other. It's apples-to-oranges.

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Domino's outsells most good quality local pizza restaurants. I think Domino's pizza sucks too. Does that make me a "snob?"

Better a snob than an egalitarian who tries to claim that something that appeals to the lowest common denominator has value just BECAUSE it shoots so low.

No, I think you're more of a snob because you are applying standards or worth from one idiom to another that is barely related. For example, if I tried to value an iPad for its digital creation of a Pixar-caliber short film, the iPad would fail miserably. Also, I would be silly for thinking that an iPad's main function is to produce state-of-the-art digital animation graphics.

The entire reason for a drum corps' existence and the entire reason for a college marching band's existence are pretty opposite. A college marching band's sole existence is to entertain a crowd at athletic events & hype the crowd up in support of said athletic team. I.E. they aren't there to set new standards in the art of marching artistry!

Now, don't get me wrong: I enjoy drum corps and competitive marching band more than most college marching bands. But I'm also smart enough to understand the reasons WHY those groups produce completely different products. I was never in TBDBITL when I was at The Ohio State University: part of it was the drum line at the time didn't appeal to me musically, and part of it was I could not get into their marching style (I had major problems adjusting from corps style to their style). Looking back now, decades later, I wish I would've stuck pushed to audition and do it for at least a year. I know people who won DCI Championships who marched in that band, and they said that NOTHING beats the exhilarating feeling of coming off the ramp into the stadium at pre-show.

I could be a music snob and compare drum corps to a top professional symphony where ANY drum and bugle corps would fail miserably. But again, that would be a silly comparison.

Just as comparing DCI corps' execution & style to college marching bands is silly, and probably coming from a very narrow, naive perspective.

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When you're not the main draw, you do what you can to get support from the university and the fans. They don't sell 100,000 tickets to see the marching band, but the football team sells that. The B1G bands are in a support role

That's true, but when tOSU Marching Band, for example, has their pre-game concert in the old basketball arena it is hard to get seats if you're not there early. They easily fill the 13,000+ seats to standing room only with fans there to do nothing but hear the marching band! Granted, a lot of those fans are on campus for the game, but at tOSU at least fans go out of their way to support and show love to TBDBITL. To add to that, the last thing that tOSU Football team does before going over to the stadium on game day is go to the marching band performance in the arena. At tOSU the football team respects the band and their contributions enough to make it a part of their game day schedule to watch the performance.

Kind of funny, as a student at tOSU, I appreciated the band for what they meant to the University + their long tradition and respect they have. But I was never really that impressed with their style or show designs or even execution (from a percussion standpoint at least). But as I got older and long after I moved from OH across the country, I've come to really enjoy watching them perform. They're not Crown, or Cadets, or Blue Devils, or whatever, but they are pretty great at what they do and to fail to recognize their excellence is naive. A lot of college bands are the same (though to be fair a lot of college bands are not as great, and I've seen plenty of other college bands where its all about drunk-fest for games and there's not a lot of pride or care taken by members)

Edited by perc2100
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Since you claim to have been "exposed" to Big 10 bands for "20 years" (a claim I find hard to believe, since they suck all on their own in your opinion - I can't imagine you'd watch them), you must know all about the 5th quarter. More people stay and watch that, each and every home game, than attend the annual DCI championship. The audience is there to watch the band. Your typical college marching band probably practices 2 1/2 hours per day, maybe 5 days a week, and puts on a new show each home game. And the members are full time students. Based on the time they have available to put into it, they do a pretty fine job. A typical drum corps show of today, played at a typical major college halftime, would probably be (1) ignored because it's so incredibly boring, or (2) laughed out of the stadium. I'm sure the prancing and emoting, not to mention the amps and electronics, would be mocked and ridiculed. These two mediums don't go together. Critiquing a college marching band performance through a drum corps performance lens is ridiculous. HOWEVER, you can look to how college marching bands do in reaching their audiences, vs. how drum corps do in reaching theirs. My claim is that these Big 10 marching bands know what their identities are, know their audiences better and perform to them better than drum corps do to their audiences. I think drum corps today don't really know what their identities are, who their audiences are, why they exist, or what the end game is. I have had kids both in drum corps and in college marching bands, and appreciate each for what they are individually. You cannot judge one against the other. It's apples-to-oranges.

All great points, and I suspect if, say, Michigan State marching band spent from mid-November to mid-August learning & perfecting only one 12 minute show they would probably look and sound pretty amazing: especially if the band took 3+ months off of life and ONLY rehearsed that show 12+ hours a day, seven days a week. Also, tOSU Marching Band has I think about 75 more members than DCI corps (all musicians too - no color guard - so easily more than 100 musicians than the top WC corps), so if we add marching bands cutting back their numbers to DCI size in addition to doing nothing but focus on one 12 minute show for 10 months, and I'd say many of the Big 10 bands would do very well for themselves (Michigan State, Michigan, tOSU...)

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