Ohio State University

[Rifuarian]

I wouldn't consider learning as a "side effect" of the primary goal of the Navy. In order for a naval member to best assist in achieving the institution's primary goal, the member must first learn the skills involved in rendering that assistance. In order to most effective serve as a turret gunner on a destroyer, I must first learn how to load, effectively aim, and discharge the cannon. The learning of the talents involved in achieving the primary goal is crucial in the eventual, and successful, achievement of that goal; thus the learning and achievement go hand in hand.

Then by that standard everything is educational. In order to be the most effective short order cook you have to learn how to flip burgers. Does that mean that McDonald's is educational (Hamburger University aside)? Training is not the same as education.

[HornTeacher]

Then by that standard everything is educational. In order to be the most effective short order cook you have to learn how to flip burgers. Does that mean that McDonald's is educational (Hamburger University aside)? Training is not the same as education.

You may very well be correct, Rifuarian.

So please explain to me...what is the difference between "training" and "education"?

(P.S. -- I found your "Hamburger University" reference particularly amusing. In a good way, I assure you.)

Edited September 20, 2014 by HornTeacher

[Brad T.]

So I've been following this post lately and finally decided to speak. As a former member of the OSUMB (2005-2006) and now current member of the OSUMB (2014), the level of hard work and dedication it takes to be in the band is far more than in many drum corps. Most people just assume OSU is another college band that pumps out campy shows. The show themes are selected by students at the end of the previous school year. The season begins in June with twice weekly practices that cover typical school songs and drill fundamentals. All band members go through a rigorous tryout process during the first week of August that includes one playing audition and four marching auditions. There were two brand new candidates this year try out on Sousaphone that marched DCI. One did Blue Stars, the other Cavaliers. A summer of competitive marching and playing did not give them enough of an edge to make the band. Neither of those kids made it. We routinely have band members who march in DCI. Corps represented over the past few years include Cavaliers, Bluecoats, Glassmen, Madison Scouts, and Carolina Crown.

Once the band is selected, they rehearse for nearly 12 hours a day for two and a half weeks until school starts. These rehearsals teach the basics of the Pregame show as well as the first halftime show. Once school is in session, the band rehearses for two hours a day. Everything else is done on personal time. Most shows are learned in 5-10 class days, depending on the football schedule. The music and charts are handed out on Monday, and performed either that Saturday or the following Saturday. Every show is written in a different style to expand the musical horizons of the students in the band. There are swing charts, classical charts, modern charts, etc. The band typically refrains from playing pop/top 40, there's another Ohio college that does that plenty.

The band has a huge following not because of the football team, but rather because of their continued quality. Some shows that the band plays are not always as wildly popular with the crowds as others. Many alumni of the band have gone on to join the Brass Band of Columbus, which is a competitive British style Brass Band. I will admit that even at OSU, not all of the instrument professors are totally sold on their students being in the band. Mostly it is because of the time commitment, not because of anything else.

People have said they wouldn't mind seeing OSU do something more "corps style." Truth be told, OSU has continued to perform shows in a consistent style since the 1970s. I believe I posted before links to DCI shows from the 70s and shows from the OSUMB of the same era. Similar style and content really. Perhaps it should be the corps that begin to emulate programs like OSU. Perhaps then it wouldn't be the same few of us attending shows. The style of show that is DCI today loses the average audience member, and even loses me as a drum corps performer. Shows that require audience thought or seek to evoke some hidden emotion do nothing to the average person in the stands. OSU didn't gain attention in media outlets on six continents by playing an avant garde show featuring synths, dancers, and a pit. They gained attention by learning a show in 5 days and performing familiar drill and music to captivate the audience.

This notion that OSU or other college bands aren't educational while drum corps is, is questionable to me. Just as many of you don't see the benefits of playing "pop" charts, I don't see the benefit of playing the same 5 warmup chorales and the same 12 minutes of music everyday, for 12-16 hours a day, for nearly three months. The only thing that is being proven is that the corps members can learn and perfect a single show with a single style of performance. The flip side to that is drum corps do something that I wish OSU could do, and that is to play really loud, really well. The OSU band should be louder than any DCI corps simply because of the numbers. The biggest DCI hot line has what, 70-80 horns? OSU has 168 horns on the field.

At any rate, as someone who performs in the OSU band, has performed in a DCA corps, won a DCA I&E medal, is staffing a DCI SoundSport team, and performing in and staffing a new WGI Winds team, I do appreciate the many facets of the marching arts. To say that a college band doesn't work hard because of the type of show they do is not giving the group any credit where credit is due. That's akin to saying that Pioneer doesn't work as hard as Carolina Crown and the evidence is in the scores. That is simply not true. Both corps work extremely hard and give their kids experiences and memories they'll never forget.

I digress, this is a topic that I am very passionate about. I will entertain reasonable questions...

[Cappybara]

So I've been following this post lately and finally decided to speak. As a former member of the OSUMB (2005-2006) and now current member of the OSUMB (2014), the level of hard work and dedication it takes to be in the band is far more than in many drum corps. Most people just assume OSU is another college band that pumps out campy shows. The show themes are selected by students at the end of the previous school year. The season begins in June with twice weekly practices that cover typical school songs and drill fundamentals. All band members go through a rigorous tryout process during the first week of August that includes one playing audition and four marching auditions. There were two brand new candidates this year try out on Sousaphone that marched DCI. One did Blue Stars, the other Cavaliers. A summer of competitive marching and playing did not give them enough of an edge to make the band. Neither of those kids made it. We routinely have band members who march in DCI. Corps represented over the past few years include Cavaliers, Bluecoats, Glassmen, Madison Scouts, and Carolina Crown.

Once the band is selected, they rehearse for nearly 12 hours a day for two and a half weeks until school starts. These rehearsals teach the basics of the Pregame show as well as the first halftime show. Once school is in session, the band rehearses for two hours a day. Everything else is done on personal time. Most shows are learned in 5-10 class days, depending on the football schedule. The music and charts are handed out on Monday, and performed either that Saturday or the following Saturday. Every show is written in a different style to expand the musical horizons of the students in the band. There are swing charts, classical charts, modern charts, etc. The band typically refrains from playing pop/top 40, there's another Ohio college that does that plenty.

The band has a huge following not because of the football team, but rather because of their continued quality. Some shows that the band plays are not always as wildly popular with the crowds as others. Many alumni of the band have gone on to join the Brass Band of Columbus, which is a competitive British style Brass Band. I will admit that even at OSU, not all of the instrument professors are totally sold on their students being in the band. Mostly it is because of the time commitment, not because of anything else.

People have said they wouldn't mind seeing OSU do something more "corps style." Truth be told, OSU has continued to perform shows in a consistent style since the 1970s. I believe I posted before links to DCI shows from the 70s and shows from the OSUMB of the same era. Similar style and content really. Perhaps it should be the corps that begin to emulate programs like OSU. Perhaps then it wouldn't be the same few of us attending shows. The style of show that is DCI today loses the average audience member, and even loses me as a drum corps performer. Shows that require audience thought or seek to evoke some hidden emotion do nothing to the average person in the stands. OSU didn't gain attention in media outlets on six continents by playing an avant garde show featuring synths, dancers, and a pit. They gained attention by learning a show in 5 days and performing familiar drill and music to captivate the audience.

This notion that OSU or other college bands aren't educational while drum corps is, is questionable to me. Just as many of you don't see the benefits of playing "pop" charts, I don't see the benefit of playing the same 5 warmup chorales and the same 12 minutes of music everyday, for 12-16 hours a day, for nearly three months. The only thing that is being proven is that the corps members can learn and perfect a single show with a single style of performance. The flip side to that is drum corps do something that I wish OSU could do, and that is to play really loud, really well. The OSU band should be louder than any DCI corps simply because of the numbers. The biggest DCI hot line has what, 70-80 horns? OSU has 168 horns on the field.

At any rate, as someone who performs in the OSU band, has performed in a DCA corps, won a DCA I&E medal, is staffing a DCI SoundSport team, and performing in and staffing a new WGI Winds team, I do appreciate the many facets of the marching arts. To say that a college band doesn't work hard because of the type of show they do is not giving the group any credit where credit is due. That's akin to saying that Pioneer doesn't work as hard as Carolina Crown and the evidence is in the scores. That is simply not true. Both corps work extremely hard and give their kids experiences and memories they'll never forget.

I digress, this is a topic that I am very passionate about. I will entertain reasonable questions...

You act like OSUMB's practice schedule is any different than other college marching bands. It isn't.

[jjeffeory]

You act like OSUMB's practice schedule is any different than other college marching bands. It isn't.

The quality of what they put out IS. Sorry. I've been around the block plenty. I've performed in a championship DCI corps and OSU ( Spring band no less). That band works HARD.

Good for the rest of the bands that work that hard too, but don't dismiss the 100 quality there. They've had people who have march many a DCI finalist corps who can not make their band.

It's different.

Edited September 22, 2014 by jjeffeory

[MikeD]

You act like OSUMB's practice schedule is any different than other college marching bands. It isn't.

Actually, I don't think Brad is trying to compare OSU to other college bands. I think he is trying to dispell the view that many in drum corps have that they are "just" a college band, and are somehow a lesser ensemble because of the shows they present.

[Cappybara]

The quality of what they put out IS. Sorry. I've been around the block plenty. I've performed in a championship DCI corps and OSU ( Spring band no less). That band works HARD.

Good for the rest of the bands that work that hard too, but don't dismiss the 100 quality there. They've had people who have march many a DCI finalist corps who can not make their band.

It's different.

I wasn't referring to the quality of the players. Just the schedule of practice.

[corpsband]

This is so far off topic it's not funny.

Can we just close this thread? No one wants to talk about Ohio.

Edited September 22, 2014 by corpsband

[Sideways]

So when will OSU perform "Don't Let the Sun Go Down on Me" while playing Penn State?

[Cappybara]

This is so far off topic it's not funny.

Can we just close this thread? No one wants to talk about Ohio.

Clearly many people still want to talk about Ohio State.