Kamarag Posted July 15, 2014 Share Posted July 15, 2014 Trust me, I wish things weren't the way they are. I have just accepted the reality of the situation and am being honest with myself about it. You've completed the Kübler-Ross model, or five stages of grief. I feel for you guys, the alumni of the corps, I really do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfgang Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 Do they think it's absolutely impossible to retain their identity and still explore new ground? It's difficult for me to say. I have zero affiliation with the Scouts or their alumni, so I am purely speculating on what I see and hear from a distance. Hopefully the views of their total alumni base are a bit more diverse than what we seem to see on DCP. But frankly, I find many of the alums here to be hopelessly stuck in the past. They were great times, make no mistake about it. But time moves forward. That's what I think about it anyway. is it too late for add a killing at the end of the show, or does Phantom have exclusive rights to that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SFZFAN Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 (edited) I will add - after watching the Denver performance again, that the drumline is smokin as is the hornline. The trumpet player at the end really nails that high note ending but I'm still left totally deflated at the climax of the show. I'll be interested to see what the other Madison honks think of it this Saturday. My family and I are sitting in the Scouts VIP area again and that's always a lot of fun. Edited July 16, 2014 by SFZFAN Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmjfelts1988 Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 (edited) Here's the problem. You can't do a show of Kenton and Ellis music CORRECTLY and get competitive credit for it. Nor can you "modernize it" into a modern DCI theater drama and get fan appeal from it. Conclusion: this show was a mistake. They should have stayed the course that they've been on for the last three years. 2010 was classic Madison as well but it was the right time and the right statement to make at the right time. In 2011, they found a way to move forward yet keep a glimmer of that brand. 2012 and 2013 was more of the same. This one? Aint working. The only way thay could make it work is to go balls to the wall old school with it and reap the competitive consequences. And you know they aren't going to do that. So they should have just picked another show because now, they are suffering the competitive consequences while AT THE SAME TIME alienating their fans by doing these musical selections in a way they were not intended to be executed. Heh! If you want to know a funny reality. The closest they come to the real "jazz" intent of this music is in the ballad with the trombones. It's honestly my favorite part of this show. Edited July 16, 2014 by bmjfelts1988 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tesmusic Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 Here's the problem. You can't do a show of Kenton and Ellis music CORRECTLY and get competitive credit for it. Nor can you "modernize it" into a modern DCI theater drama and get fan appeal from it. Conclusion: this show was a mistake. They should have stayed the course that they've been on for the last three years. 2010 was classic Madison as well but it was the right time and the right statement to make at the right time. In 2011, they found a way to move forward yet keep a glimmer of that brand. 2012 and 2013 was more of the same. This one? Aint working. The only way thay could make it work is to go balls to the wall old school with it and reap the competitive consequences. And you know they aren't going to do that. So they should have just picked another show. Study Gunther Schuler and his thoughts on third Stream Jazz and you'll quickly realize that your first paragraph is wrong. Couple that with the fact that what Kebton was doing in the late 40's until the 70's, and how that coincides with what Mr. Ellis was doing after his first few albums through the time of his heart attack, and you will find again that you're off base if we simply examine the source material. That said, is it not working because the judges say so, or it's not working based on the times you have seen and heard the program? I've seen the show several times live and on the net, and I think it works quite well together. I also think musically it is one of the best shows I've seen in a long time from any corps. Visual needs work, but that is happening. Maybe I'm alone but I personally love this show and am very proud if my younger brothers. It's funny, people were saying this same type of stuff at this point of the 97 season, that we weren't good, that the design was bad, that we had lost our identity, and look at the end result of that season. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmjfelts1988 Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 (edited) Study Gunther Schuler and his thoughts on third Stream Jazz and you'll quickly realize that your first paragraph is wrong. Couple that with the fact that what Kebton was doing in the late 40's until the 70's, and how that coincides with what Mr. Ellis was doing after his first few albums through the time of his heart attack, and you will find again that you're off base if we simply examine the source material. That said, is it not working because the judges say so, or it's not working based on the times you have seen and heard the program? I've seen the show several times live and on the net, and I think it works quite well together. I also think musically it is one of the best shows I've seen in a long time from any corps. Visual needs work, but that is happening. Maybe I'm alone but I personally love this show and am very proud if my younger brothers. It's funny, people were saying this same type of stuff at this point of the 97 season, that we weren't good, that the design was bad, that we had lost our identity, and look at the end result of that season. I'm aware of the Gunther Schuler connection but the problem is, nobody in the stands gets it nor does anyone want to get it. They want to hear Madison do that music in a way that makes the crowd react the way it did to Madison's 95 show. Can't get that reaction with a soft ending and with the high note trumpets being nothing more than an afterthought. I feel bad for the corps. I know they have to be hurting right about now. Probably some very long and not very fun rehearsal days. My biggest fear in all of this is if Mason and company decide to say "screw it. We're leaving" after this year. If that happens, they're done. No need for that to happen though. All they need to do is make a U-turn right back to the direction they were heading in 2013 and they will be fine. Edited July 16, 2014 by bmjfelts1988 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcjordansc Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 It's funny, people were saying this same type of stuff at this point of the 97 season, that we weren't good, that the design was bad, that we had lost our identity, and look at the end result of that season. 1997? Was this the year the corps was first or second in every show they entered up to finals week when they landed in fifth? I am not sure that is a good comparison. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slingerland Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 (edited) Here's the problem. You can't do a show of Kenton and Ellis music CORRECTLY and get competitive credit for it. Nor can you "modernize it" into a modern DCI theater drama and get fan appeal from it. I'd disagree with this. Look at BD's source material this year, then look at Madison's source material. They're much more similar in tone and era than not (and the costuming choice of BDs guard is a modern interpretation of what would have been racy in the 60s). The basic idea of their show is fine. It's the execution of the idea that isn't working (plus a very weak guard and visual program). Don't overthink the situation; it ain't DCI in this case, it's Madison. Edited July 16, 2014 by Slingerland Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drangin Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 I'm aware of the Gunther Schuler connection but the problem is, nobody in the stands gets it nor does anyone want to get it. They want to hear Madison do that music in a way that makes the crowd react the way it did to Madison's 95 show. Can't get that reaction with a soft ending and with the high note trumpets being nothing more than an afterthought. I feel bad for the corps. I know they have to be hurting right about now. Probably some very long and not very fun rehearsal days. It's not too late for old school drum corps fans to study up on Gunther Schuller and get hip to Third Stream Jazz. There's three whole weeks of the season left. They just need to listen to nothing but George Russell, Gil Evans and Ornette Coleman from now till then, and then they'll get it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SFZFAN Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 It's not too late for old school drum corps fans to study up on Gunther Schuller and get hip to Third Stream Jazz. There's three whole weeks of the season left. They just need to listen to nothing but George Russell, Gil Evans and Ornette Coleman from now till then, and then they'll get it! Drum corps fans shouldn't need to study anything to get a drum corps show. All the fans should have to do is buy a ticket, sit down, and be entertained. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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