Stu Posted October 31, 2013 Share Posted October 31, 2013 (edited) At first I thought this might be an intelligent thread........But was sadly mistaken.....didn't take too long into for someone to start the BD / G7 bashing........I guess I am surprised that nobody threw Hopkins into the mix. Although, the more I think about it, I shouldn't be to surprised........I am more angry at myself that I keep trying to come back on to this site and expect that anything would change a) Nowhere in this thread is BD or the G7 'bashed'; having a little fun with the premise of the thread, sure; but no BD or G7 'bashing' has occured in any way shape or form. b) I agree, however, that you certainly should be angry with yourself for coming back to this site; you place this stress onto yourself and can avoid it by just staying away. Edited October 31, 2013 by Stu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted October 31, 2013 Share Posted October 31, 2013 I've been to a few marching band competitions over the past three Saturdays. Among the 30-odd ensembles competing at those events were two groups that had no drum major and two groups that had no battery. (One group had neither drum major nor battery.) What surprised me was that at the most recent show, one of the latter type, a marching band without any marching percussion, won best percussion. Would that be possible in drum corps? Are there similar surprising outcomes that a corps might pull off if they were exceptional? Could a group win best music with no percussion? Or with no brass? (Or with no synthesizer?) Best general effect without marching? Best percussion without a pit? Best visual without guard? Etc. (The band in question also featured a lot of pretentious narration--really bad stuff, lots of synthesizer, some nifty lighting effects in the pit, and a bassoon soloist perched on a ladder. That soloist, though sadly miked, was pretty good. And I thought they marched some unusual and difficult drill excellently: that was the one category where I picked them to win; naturally they did not.) In the past some corps won what is now Open Class without a battery...not sure about the drum major. it is more common in the band world, especially smaller bands to go the grounded percussion route. I've actually taught it that way, and it created some challenges with older judges who felt it wasn't as demanding, but our approach was to cross train the kids on multiple instruments so no one was glued to one instrument the entire show. I've seen some really creative and musical presentations done this way,and I'm proud of the work my team did the two years I was with them. if done right...yeah it could happen, but I'm not sure a larger corps would ever go for it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N.E. Brigand Posted October 31, 2013 Author Share Posted October 31, 2013 (edited) At first, I thought this might be an intelligent thread... but was sadly mistaken. Didn't take too long for someone to start the BD / G7 bashing. I guess I am surprised that nobody threw Hopkins into the mix. Although the more I think about it, I shouldn't be too surprised. I am more angry at myself that I keep trying to come back onto this site and expect that anything would change. Can you point to a post in this thread that is "bashing" the Blue Devils? I don't see it. I also see no mention of the G7 prior to your post. http://www.drumcorpsplanet.com/forums/index.php/topic/158232-could-a-corps-win-best-percussion-without-a-battery/?p=3328031 Ah. I stand corrected. Thank you. The G7 were indeed mentioned. Whether they were bashed by that post depends on one's point of view, I think. Edited October 31, 2013 by N.E. Brigand Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N.E. Brigand Posted October 31, 2013 Author Share Posted October 31, 2013 (edited) In the past some corps won what is now Open Class without a battery...not sure about the drum major. it is more common in the band world, especially smaller bands to go the grounded percussion route. I've actually taught it that way, and it created some challenges with older judges who felt it wasn't as demanding, but our approach was to cross train the kids on multiple instruments so no one was glued to one instrument the entire show. I've seen some really creative and musical presentations done this way,and I'm proud of the work my team did the two years I was with them. if done right...yeah it could happen, but I'm not sure a larger corps would ever go for it Interesting. Thanks, Jeff. Was it really as demanding? Was it perhaps more demanding? Is it harder to switch from one instrument to another than it is to march while never switching instruments? Could this logic be applied to all musicians? Have all the brass players standstill but change from trumpet to tuba to baritone during the show while having only the guard move aroun the field? Edited October 31, 2013 by N.E. Brigand Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted October 31, 2013 Share Posted October 31, 2013 In the past some corps won what is now Open Class without a battery...not sure about the drum major. it is more common in the band world, especially smaller bands to go the grounded percussion route. I've actually taught it that way, and it created some challenges with older judges who felt it wasn't as demanding, but our approach was to cross train the kids on multiple instruments so no one was glued to one instrument the entire show. I've seen some really creative and musical presentations done this way,and I'm proud of the work my team did the two years I was with them. if done right...yeah it could happen, but I'm not sure a larger corps would ever go for it So to be consistant with this philosophy, you must also be in favor of a corps or a band not marching any wind players at all, grounding 'all' of the winds along with 'all' of the percussion, while just having dancers and guard members march out on the field. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted October 31, 2013 Share Posted October 31, 2013 Too funny!!! But seriously, it all depends on the sheet they are being judged by. I have judged some contests this year, and at one there was no place on the sheet for movement/marching at all. So, I can only judge what they are doing based on the sheet, and in one of the classes I actually had a group that did not march win best percussion for that class. They had battery instruments in the pit, just did not march them. At other contests where there is a caption for marching/movement on the percussion sheet, groups like that don't have a chance if you go by the sheet. Obviously with all of this, there is realistic judgement of what is being done well, and things that are not that has to be taken into consideration as well. even on the DCI sheets, it may discuss simultaneous responsibilities, but it also discusses environmental challenges as well, such as listening and such.....so marching isn't a pre-requisite Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbg Posted October 31, 2013 Share Posted October 31, 2013 b) I agree, however, that you certainly should be angry with yourself for coming back to this site; you place this stress onto yourself and can avoid it by just staying away. yes, I agree with that 100% Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted October 31, 2013 Share Posted October 31, 2013 Interesting. Thanks, Jeff. Was it really as demanding? Was it perhaps more demanding? Is it harder to switch from one instrument to another than it is to march while never switching instruments? Could this logic be applied to all musicians? Have all the brass players standstill but change from trumpet to tuba to baritone during the show while having only the guard move aroun the field? different kinds of demand. Yeah, the only movement they did was to go to a different instrument. But consider this: The last year I taught that school, here was one kid's responsibilities in a 7 minute 45 second show play tympani play bells play marching snare drum play concert snare drum play marimba play vibes play chimes play tenors back to tympani Now all of those instruments require different approaches and techniques. being the hardass I am, I demanded they all be mastered. Now imagine 9 kids doing that.That's some serious demand. Then add into the fact that because of placement on the field, the band was in front of them, beside them, and behind them. So listening responsibilities out the wazoo. Plus, we didn't play Come to Jesus in whole notes. While we didn't win at Championships, we were top 6, and with a weaker wind section, we helped the upstairs music scores immensly.Truly the two years we took this approach, it made me a better teacher and designer, and made me think outside of the traditional box. Oh god the #### we threw against the wall to see what would stick. And because these kids couldnt march to save their ####### life, we improved the visual scores by NOT letting them march LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted October 31, 2013 Share Posted October 31, 2013 So to be consistant with this philosophy, you must also be in favor of a corps or a band not marching any wind players at all, grounding 'all' of the winds along with 'all' of the percussion, while just having dancers and guard members march out on the field. No, but good old Stu reaching to assumptions. I took what I had and made it work. I had 9 kids out of 30 total musicians to play with, and the kids couldn't march to save their #####. So we took two big issues....size and lack of marching skills, and turned two negatives into a positive for the group. They have to this date not had that kind of success competitively. Isit what I would do if I had 30 bodies available? No, I wouldn't. It's very rare I see it being done by any ensembles except the smallest ones. and quiet honestly with some of the body stuff that gets credited for visual when they barely march, you could say many wind ensembles already go this route Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MelloMatt Posted October 31, 2013 Share Posted October 31, 2013 I think Tarpon Springs has gone without field percussion in the last few years, and always seem to do pretty well. No where does it say that you need a drumline, you could just go with a pit set-up with the necessary instruments. No need to try and get 8 snares in tune and in time, just one pit person with a mic. Not that I'm on board with the idea, just saying it hypothetically could happen. Tarpon has had snares since 2011, but for almost 15 years before that didn't have a marching drumline. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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