arrangerx Posted December 9, 2013 Share Posted December 9, 2013 The "crisis" is this: It costs too much to march in a drum corps now. It just does. It costs too much to tour. The "design" costs at most drum corps are under 10% of the budget. Seems like a pretty reasonable idea that the actual development of the product that is basically the engine that allows the experience costs less than 10 cents on the dollar. However... George is right in a lot of ways. The current drum corps model is unsustainable. We've known that for a very long time. Regardless of what goes on behind closed doors in a board room, the energy wasted on castigating one passionate man seems misplaced. Replace the current touring model. If corps are surviving on the modest performance fees they are receiving (they are not) then the model works. If they can't, then the model is broken. Chuck Naffier 35 year Participant 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garfield Posted December 9, 2013 Share Posted December 9, 2013 (edited) The "crisis" is this: It costs too much to march in a drum corps now. It just does. It costs too much to tour. The "design" costs at most drum corps are under 10% of the budget. Seems like a pretty reasonable idea that the actual development of the product that is basically the engine that allows the experience costs less than 10 cents on the dollar. However... George is right in a lot of ways. The current drum corps model is unsustainable. We've known that for a very long time. Regardless of what goes on behind closed doors in a board room, the energy wasted on castigating one passionate man seems misplaced. Replace the current touring model. If corps are surviving on the modest performance fees they are receiving (they are not) then the model works. If they can't, then the model is broken. Chuck Naffier 35 year Participant Hold on a second... Have drum corps EVER survived on their performance fees? Has any arts org done so? Under your definition of success, the drum corps activity has been broken since the very first one formed on the largesse of the first dedicated group to form a corps. I see nothing in the history of drum corps (and, yes, I've read both of Vickers' books and several others on the subject) that indicates that a primary goal of the sponsoring organizations (Catholic, VFW, or DCI) that was aimed at having the activity support itself via performance fees. I'm a firm believer that the BOD should be left alone, without outside pressure, to hammer out the deal best for the whole activity. But when Hop puts himself out there on Facebook to promote his viewpoints, he's fair game IMO. After all, he seems to thrive on "castigation". If it's a waste of energy, it's only because we give him what he wants. Signed, 40 year participant Edited December 9, 2013 by garfield 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted December 9, 2013 Author Share Posted December 9, 2013 The "crisis" is this: It costs too much to march in a drum corps now. It just does. It costs too much to tour. The "design" costs at most drum corps are under 10% of the budget. Seems like a pretty reasonable idea that the actual development of the product that is basically the engine that allows the experience costs less than 10 cents on the dollar. However... George is right in a lot of ways. The current drum corps model is unsustainable. We've known that for a very long time. Regardless of what goes on behind closed doors in a board room, the energy wasted on castigating one passionate man seems misplaced. Replace the current touring model. If corps are surviving on the modest performance fees they are receiving (they are not) then the model works. If they can't, then the model is broken. Chuck Naffier 35 year Participant One problem Chuck.....one oif the drivers of the change is the man now pushing for new change....and the change he pushes is only for the benefits of a few, not for all. There is never a sense that anyone in DCI is willing to go back and say "hey we used to....and it worked better then...".....it's always change change change...and with Hop's vision, it's only change for the benefit of a few. He and the other 6 had the circuit by the balls in 2010.,.....what's happened since? Sure they have their super shows, which haven't really turned the business upside down in good ways, and some of the ideas floated about "extras" to enhance the show have been met with, at best, tepid applause. Is it true even the 7 can't agree? it would seem that way because only one of them speaks publicly....and I doubt his vision is shared by them. They know they can't survivie without DCI. The rest of the corps called their bluff, and here we are. Sure, at select events, some non 7 have been invited to play....but how interesting is it that the one non 7 corps guaranteed to put ##### in the seats said no? Here's an interesting tidbit: For several years Hopkins and Gibbs have contended that DCI was in horrible shape financially. The organization ended their most recent fiscal year with a $250,000 in-the-black milestone and both DrumBattle and SoundSport are not only bringing more people into the activity, but also generating potentially more finances for the bottom line through purchasing tickets. But .. Hop feels DCI should NOT bein the business of "delivering education" in any way, shape or form. He feels that he and the top dogs are the only ones qualified to do this. he also seems to think DCI does NOT make a difference in the lives of kids.The belief is that DCI exists to solely to serve corps, not kids... and anything the kids get from the experience is the product and responsibility of the top corps. The members of the association have resoundingly given a vote of confidence to concept of a strong DCI brand is good for everyone... unanimous except for one corps. the only dissenting vote? Would you care to guess? So Soundsport and Drumline battle seem to be working....but because it's not Hop's baby, it's not worth it. Why isn't Hop running these events under the YEA banner? Here's a money maker for him! Here's a guy that changed his marching band championships schedule, making people drive way out of the way from what they budgeted for because he needed more bands to make it cost effective to use Met Life.....and to do so he even created a new class the week of because some bands had conflicts. ( the comments section on the USBands site for this and his way of hosting awards were telling...people didn't buy it.) This is also a guy who when people criticized his event on Facebook, sent his attack dogs out to go after people that did so, and Hop himself even called out a band parent who has been criticial of how they run their events. Really George? atacking band parents on Facebook because they thought your show was overpriced, poorly run and set up bad? 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zachariaswmb Posted December 9, 2013 Share Posted December 9, 2013 (edited) Hop feels DCI should NOT bein the business of "delivering education" in any way, shape or form. He feels that he and the top dogs are the only ones qualified to do this. he also seems to think DCI does NOT make a difference in the lives of kids.The belief is that DCI exists to solely to serve corps, not kids... and anything the kids get from the experience is the product and responsibility of the top corps. The members of the association have resoundingly given a vote of confidence to concept of a strong DCI brand is good for everyone... unanimous except for one corps. the only dissenting vote? Would you care to guess? Hey Jeff. You know I normally don't like to get in the middle of these conversations, but please help me out here. Could you provide citations for the bolded statement? That's quite an assumption if you do not have concrete proof to back it up, especially considering all the man has done for young people over the years. Agree or disagree with his approach, he is passionate about making a positive difference in the lives of young people in any way he can. Edited December 9, 2013 by zachariaswmb 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimF-LowBari Posted December 9, 2013 Share Posted December 9, 2013 (edited) Sounds like a bunch of haikus strung together...... LOL - thinking of 'military roots' I could just picture this being brought up at a meeting on the Navy base I work at.... Next words spoken (by someone else) would be "And you propose... what???". Or as my former boss (ex-Special Services) put it "If you bring me a problem, think far enough ahead to have a possible solution". IOW - don't drop this crap in my lap and back away.... Edited December 9, 2013 by JimF-LowBari Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeN Posted December 9, 2013 Share Posted December 9, 2013 Hey Jeff. You know I normally don't like to get in the middle of these conversations, but please help me out here. Could you provide citations for the bolded statement? That's quite an assumption if you do not have concrete proof to back it up, especially considering all the man has done for young people over there years. Agree or disagree with his approach, he is passionate about making a positive difference in the lives of young people in any way he can. I think Jeff is referring to the G-7 proposal that said that DCI the organization should not be involved in anything other than as a planning/service circuit for the corps use, and let the corps themselves be in the business of interacting with customers/kids. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StickTrick Posted December 9, 2013 Share Posted December 9, 2013 (edited) What if... Move in - June 1 (regulated, like MLB spring training)Finals - 1st weekend in AugustEVERYONE: 2 weeks for pre-tour... Tour: Regionalized... Less shows. Only do performances with 8+ corps in appearances. Shows on weekends ONLY (Friday - Sunday).Conferences: Pacific Conference (Blue Devils, SCV, Cascades, Pacific Crest, Oregon Crusaders, Mandarins), Midwest Conference (Phantom Regiment, Cavaliers, Bluecoats, Colts, Pioneer, Madison Scouts, Blue Stars), Eastern Conference (Boston Crusaders, Cadets, Carolina Crown, Jersey Surf, Spirit of Atlanta), Southern Conference (The Academy, Blue Knights, Crossmen, Troopers)... These would divide World Class, and Open Class corps. Tour Schedule:JUNE 1 - JUNE 14: Pre-tour (spring training or whatever you call it)JUNE 15 - 28 (depending on the calendar, next 2 weekends): Weekend shows at regionalized stadiums for each conference. (ex. Southern Conference 1st weekend: Friday - Houston, TX, Saturday - Dallas, TX, Sunday - Phoenix, AZ)... Only featuring that region’s corps. JUNE 29 - JULY 15: Allentown weekend (East & Midwest Corps), Denver weekend (Western & Southern corps)... Make one weekend huge drum corps festival. Similar to what they did with extra encore performances with TOC this year. JULY 16 - AUG 1: Move towards Indianapolis. Weekend prior to Finals, have a 2 day prelims/ finals event at UW-Madison, Murfreesboro, TN, or somewhere that could hold this event. Finals still in Lucas Oil Stadium. 2 day event. Semi-Finals (Top 20 from previous weekend’s prelims) play, then top 12 in Saturday night finals. Edited December 9, 2013 by StickTrick 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevlar496 Posted December 9, 2013 Share Posted December 9, 2013 What if... Move in - June 1 (regulated, like MLB spring training) Finals - 1st weekend in August EVERYONE: 2 weeks for pre-tour... Tour: Regionalized... Less shows. Only do performances with 8+ corps in appearances. Shows on weekends ONLY (Friday - Sunday). Conferences: Pacific Conference (Blue Devils, SCV, Cascades, Pacific Crest, Oregon Crusaders, Mandarins), Midwest Conference (Phantom Regiment, Cavaliers, Bluecoats, Colts, Pioneer, Madison Scouts, Blue Stars), Eastern Conference (Boston Crusaders, Cadets, Carolina Crown, Jersey Surf, Spirit of Atlanta), Southern Conference (The Academy, Blue Knights, Crossmen, Troopers)... These would divide World Class, and Open Class corps. Tour Schedule: JUNE 1 - JUNE 14: Pre-tour (spring training or whatever you call it) JUNE 15 - 28 (depending on the calendar, next 2 weekends): Weekend shows at regionalized stadiums for each conference. (ex. Southern Conference 1st weekend: Friday - Houston, TX, Saturday - Dallas, TX, Sunday - Phoenix, AZ)... Only featuring that region’s corps. JUNE 29 - JULY 15: Allentown weekend (East & Midwest Corps), Denver weekend (Western & Southern corps)... Make one weekend huge drum corps festival. Similar to what they did with extra encore performances with TOC this year. JULY 16 - AUG 1: Move towards Indianapolis. Weekend prior to Finals, have a 2 day prelims/ finals event at UW-Madison, Murfreesboro, TN, or somewhere that could hold this event. Finals still in Lucas Oil Stadium. 2 day event. Semi-Finals (Top 20 from previous weekend’s prelims) play, then top 12 in Saturday night finals. Ok, a nice start. What else you got? I like it so far. Move judges around to different conferences each weekend? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted December 9, 2013 Author Share Posted December 9, 2013 (edited) Hey Jeff. You know I normally don't like to get in the middle of these conversations, but please help me out here. Could you provide citations for the bolded statement? That's quite an assumption if you do not have concrete proof to back it up, especially considering all the man has done for young people over the years. Agree or disagree with his approach, he is passionate about making a positive difference in the lives of young people in any way he can. I have paraphrased from his resignation letter that seems to be making the rounds. and yes he's passionate...but if truly making a difference for people is his goal, then why is just a select few corps that should be able to do so? Why not everyone to share the wealth? After all, in his 2010 missive and the one last year before the BOD vote, he claims DCI's overhead is too high and it';s stealing money from the corps. Well YEA employs more people than DCI does....so maybe his overhead could shrink? Edited December 9, 2013 by Jeff Ream Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpaul Posted December 9, 2013 Share Posted December 9, 2013 Is it true even the 7 can't agree? it would seem that way because only one of them speaks publicly....and I doubt his vision is shared by them. They know they can't survivie without DCI. The rest of the corps called their bluff, and here we are. Sure, at select events, some non 7 have been invited to play....but how interesting is it that the one non 7 corps guaranteed to put ##### in the seats said no? Yes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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