What really makes Drum Corps so different

[Blackstar]

Okay, first Merry Christmas. I'm looking a definitive answer to what makes this activity so different from others that stop its grow or hastens its death?

In the past people have compared it to everything from pro sports to BOA. The reason I'm asking is because while listening to the best drum lines of 1972 I noticed that of the 39 original corps only 7 are still active. 13 of 48 from 82, 15 of 27 from 92. Adding the lower divisions you have 6 of 29 corps and 16 of 21 in 2002 plus 6 of 42 corps in lower divisions.

Going back to only 2002 24 out of 63 corps are still left. That's a little more then a third of corps that year who marched last year.

If this was pro sports there would be only 12 MLB or 10 NFL and 8 NHL teams left.

Why is this activity so different then everything else?

[Gary Matczak]

Okay, first Merry Christmas. I'm looking a definitive answer to what makes this activity so different from others that stop its grow or hastens its death?

In the past people have compared it to everything from pro sports to BOA. The reason I'm asking is because while listening to the best drum lines of 1972 I noticed that of the 39 original corps only 7 are still active. 13 of 48 from 82, 15 of 27 from 92. Adding the lower divisions you have 6 of 29 corps and 16 of 21 in 2002 plus 6 of 42 corps in lower divisions.

Going back to only 2002 24 out of 63 corps are still left. That's a little more then a third of corps that year who marched last year.

If this was pro sports there would be only 12 MLB or 10 NFL and 8 NHL teams left.

Why is this activity so different then everything else?

The sports and activities you mention are practically the same for the last several decades,............some people tend to think that drum corps needs to continue to evolve, where these people in control of the activity are actually manipulating the activity into some sort of selfish, way too expensive, expression of themselves that has gone unchecked for way too long,.............now, there is no turning back,...........the horse is out of the barn, and aint coming back,.....................ever!

[GUARDLING]

The sports and activities you mention are practically the same for the last several decades,............some people tend to think that drum corps needs to continue to evolve, where these people in control of the activity are actually manipulating the activity into some sort of selfish, way too expensive, expression of themselves that has gone unchecked for way too long,.............now, there is no turning back,...........the horse is out of the barn, and aint coming back,.....................ever!

GOOD POINTS for sure from several points.and certainly an opinion of some.......my question would also be IF some of these things DIDNT TAKE PLACE ( not all but some ) would Drum Corps have died by now already..the way it was ......HMMMMMM just might have....of course some would say yes and some no...Funny thing is whatever was not so good BITD many of us may not have known what was actually happening. Members back then were just that....just members and we marched for very different reasons than some do today.

Edited December 25, 2013 by GUARDLING

[ScoutMello]

some people tend to think that drum corps needs to continue to evolve

Given the how the activity is shrinking, do you think continuing to do the same thing is a viable approach?

If things aren't working, then evolution is a necessity.

[Gary Matczak]

Given the how the activity is shrinking, do you think continuing to do the same thing is a viable approach?

If things aren't working, then evolution is a necessity.

way too expensive,...................that certainly aint working, .......and killing off corps,............... while all they can do is try to keep up with a financial monster that continues to get away from them,,.........

Edited December 25, 2013 by Gary Matczak

[Fred Windish]

Interesting challenge trying to simply the dilemma in few words. I'd say ...

Our producers brought products to market without consumer demand.

Merry Christmas to all, and better New Years ahead!

[Slingerland]

Going back to only 2002 24 out of 63 corps are still left. That's a little more then a third of corps that year who marched last year.

If this was pro sports there would be only 12 MLB or 10 NFL and 8 NHL teams left.

That's not a good analogy. The vast majority of those 63 corps weren't anywhere near NHL or MLB level in terms of professionalism or funding. In fact, at the "major league" level of the activity, there are still 23 'teams' in the Majors, comparable to what there was 10 years ago. What you've lost are 'farm teams,' as cruel as that might seem to some.

Those farm teams have been replaced by a rapidly expanding WGI percussion and guard circuit and a steady stream of competitive band programs. The stand-alone community drum corps has been left without much of a rationale for existence, given the financial needs to be competitive in the activity and the interest in the performers in having a chance to succeed, regardless of the level they're playing at.

SoundSport is way forward for small drum corps - it's a shame that DCI's roll-out of the concept was so half-###ed, since it has the potential to actually be a much bigger activity in terms of units and participants than DCI world class drum corps, but oh well. At least it's a start.

Edited December 25, 2013 by Slingerland

[drumno5]

The sports and activities you mention are practically the same for the last several decades,............some people tend to think that drum corps needs to continue to evolve, where these people in control of the activity are actually manipulating the activity into some sort of selfish, way too expensive, expression of themselves that has gone unchecked for way too long,.............now, there is no turning back,...........the horse is out of the barn, and aint coming back,.....................ever!

But don't be naive, don't think all those corps would still be out on the field, performing for huge, enthusiastic audiences, if only we could have resisted the soulless manipulators and preserved the activity in its primal state - pure and noble, dedicated to the ideals of its creators.

And don't kid yourself either that pro sports, for example, have remained "practically the same for the past several decades," untouched by those who would corrupt the perfection and beauty of their essence. The designated hitter, the three point circle, hockey and football rules which purists say have emasculated their respective sports.... I know folks will hop up and say "still three outs/still four downs, basket is still 10 feet high," and so on. But the aforementioned modifications (among many other changes both in rules and in performance strategies, conceived and instituted for many and varied reasons) are major game-changers, fully the equivalent of the kind of changes we have seen as our activity has evolved. A 1950s era athlete would have more than a little difficulty adjusting to the modern game. And let's not even get started on the economics of today's sports, for both players and spectators.

Not saying that the current state of drum corps is better, or healthier, or more valid than it was back in the day, or that any or all of the changes we have witnessed have been positive. But it's way too simplistic to lay the blame for the activity's current shortcomings (however one may choose to define them) solely at the feet of some agenda-driven evil empire. The world has changed - socially, culturally, technologically, economically, politcally - inevitably and inexorably. The activity as we knew and loved it during the golden age of our youth could not exist today. You are correct: for better or worse, the horse has left the barn; good luck to us all.

Peace,

Fred O.

Edited December 26, 2013 by drumno5

[Blackstar]

I hate when a question begets more questions. I understand this isn't a one sentence answer. I'm not looking for one sentence.

Lets that Singerland's analogy of a farm system. Very few corps had smaller corps such as the Kiltie Kadets, Colt Cadets or Phantom Legion. Saying those D2/3 corps were feeder corps isn't true either. yes maybe 5-10 people might have moved up but not enough to really consider, say, Simplex Minutemen a feeder for 27 or Rivermen a feeder for Colts or Madison.

People mention the cost. IN the 80s you needed horns, drums guard equipment and uniforms. Now you need all that plus 30 tables, or ten 20 foot boxes or 4 sets of stands, electronic equipment, a new uniforms every year, new horns and drums every other year. Which now means an extra semi trailer, staff bus because every section needs an instructor. When I marched we had 2 drum instructors, 1 color guard guy and a couple of horn people. Now you needs a snare tech, tenor tech, bass tech, cymbal tech, Every horn section has a tech. I think we now have more techs then we had drummers in 84. This doesn't take into account the increased cost of gas, insurance

I think Fred might have it wrong also. The crowds are still the same in many areas. Its just the number of corps have gotten smaller. It cost entirely too much to field a competitive corps. My friend has an AAU team that travels. It cost each player $200 a season. Starting a drum line or color guard after equipment can be done for less then $10,000 for the whole season. For a 30 person drum line that's less then $400 a year.

No other activity has done more to kill itself then drum corps. We had a national telecast that many could kill for and now we're down to a simulcast that probably averages 75 seats per theater. How much did we lose by not being on PBS. We keep increasing cost without increasing income to meet demand. Sadly, the only way to save this activity is to reduce the number of marchers, change the whole format, possibly going indoors with 60-80 members. Going to different seasons. Do you realize the attention we would get by doing halftime shows at NBA games or Arena Football games.

But you say its a summer time activity. Well going into a winter or spring activity with smaller corps would bring more local kids meaning there would be more regional shows increasing the exposure which means more exposure which means more money per corps. An cycle of increasing success instead of the current cycle of increasing entropy.

Oh please don't say the corps today are better then the corps of yesteryear and you would rather have 20 great corps and not 50 mediocre corps. Yes I'm in the group of I would rather have 10 Blue Devil/Cadet/SCV level corps, 15 Crossmen/Sky Ryders/Freelancer level corps, 20 Surf/Northstar/Memphis Blues level corps and 30 Pioneer/Rivermen/Sagniaires level corps. And even better 40 Bandette/7th Regiment/NY Lancers level corps. All on the field today. If you get a chance listen to some of the corps from the 80's, not just the top 12 but from prelims or lower classes. Best show I ever went to was 86 Allentown DCI East D2/3 show.

[drumno5]

I think Fred might have it wrong also. The crowds are still the same in many areas. Its just the number of corps have gotten smaller.

I'm not specifically making a statement about crowd size, more referencing the oft-heard complaint about fewer corps/smaller crowds, the two of which frequently seem to be voiced together. No argument if your experience/observation has been different. My main point is that there are a lot of factors that have influenced the fortunes of the activity over the years, not all of which are the direct result of DCI, corps administration or instructional/creative staff, as Gary seemed to be saying in his post.

Fred O.