star/crown similarities?

[IllianaLancerContra]

BITD, esp their first few years Star was unpopular with a portion of the fans because they were perceived as trying to 'buy' their way into DCI finals. In their first year (1985) they came in 10th place; prior to thai the highest placement for a first year corps was Memphis Blues placing 20th in 1980. The 1985 show was Disney; more than one corps could be heard singing "M-I-C; K-E-Y; M-O-N-E-Y" when they were at a competition.The next year (1986), they did the outer-space show featuring the theme from 'Close Encounters' with something like 20 contras playing the mother-ship parts; in other words purchasing 12 additional $3000 horns for a 40-second bit. The year after that was a circus show, which supposedly included several professional circus performers.

Crown, on the other hand, has certainly not been the instant success. It has been fun to watch them develop over the years.

However, as of today, one can say correctly that a big similarity between Star & Crown is that both corps have won DCI's top division exactly the same number of times - once.

[Pete Freedman]

1. Both had a stark white period in which the whiteness is intended to look austere and minimalist (as opposed to Phantom where it looks more opulent and fancy.)

2. No clear stylistic foundation, unlike every other top corps

3. (Due to #2) Lots of buzz about their show, since fans have no idea what they are doing or even what they are going to look like. The curiosity is naturally higher.

4. Both are/were body movement innovators

5. Again going back to #2, the lack of a limiting foundation gives them the ability to reinvent drum corps every year in a way that other corps have more difficulty doing. This in turn seems to attract very creative people. That is why I believe we are at the beginning of a Crown dynasty in which they will win several titles in this decade (though not necessarily 2014.) Star would have done the same if they'd lasted.

[mingusmonk]

There are plenty of Star Alums who read/post on DCP.

I'd be interested in their take on this topic. Do they feel a connection? Why?

Same question could be asked of Crown FMMs.

Maybe that would make this thread spin in a more interesting direction.

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u g g c : / / t b b . t y / p 4 G 6 o t

So when did that video get added to your signature, and, may I ask ... why?

[jbeatty89]

Both were initially known for their great brass and there are some common staff who marched/taught STAR who moved to CROWN. Overall CROWN clearly has

their own identity. It could be argued that their are similarities between CADETS and CROWN also. There is/was a very large contingency of ex-Cadets members/staff teaching Crown for a few years.

Along those same lines it's sort of unbelievable how many of the staff rotated through the Crossmen in the mid to late 90's. Every section minus the guard staff has several people who either wrote for, taught, or marched Crossmen 1994-1999. Probably a good reason they were 6th-10th place those years.

[BRASSO]

BITD, esp their first few years Star was unpopular with a portion of the fans because they were perceived as trying to 'buy' their way into DCI finals. In their first year (1985) they came in 10th place; prior to thai the highest placement for a first year corps was Memphis Blues placing 20th in 1980. The 1985 show was Disney; more than one corps could be heard singing "M-I-C; K-E-Y; M-O-N-E-Y" when they were at a competition.The next year (1986), they did the outer-space show featuring the theme from 'Close Encounters' with something like 20 contras playing the mother-ship parts; in other words purchasing 12 additional $3000 horns for a 40-second bit. The year after that was a circus show, which supposedly included several professional circus performers.

Crown, on the other hand, has certainly not been the instant success. It has been fun to watch them develop over the years.

However, as of today, one can say correctly that a big similarity between Star & Crown is that both corps have won DCI's top division exactly the same number of times - once.

As for resources and shows, I observe more identification of much of the fanbase with Star of Indiana and that of the Blue Devils.. not that of between Star and Crown. Both Star and BD both had good financial resources in their beginnings,, both had entertaining shows that most fans liked. Later on however,, both Corps changed their music, shows, uniforms, etc to that which alienated a lot of former fans. I've never saw Crown ever receive the dislike in many quarters for their shows that both the latter versions of Star received and the current versions of BD are receiving. So for me, except for some staff sharing ( that all Corps have ) I observe WAY more similarities between the Star of Indiana and that of the current Blue Devils.... more so than that btw that of Star of Indiana and current Carolina Crown. Correct me if I'm wrong, but has the Carolina Crown ever been booed for their shows or their placements ? I don't believe so. But the same can not been said for both the latter versions of the Star of Indiana and the current Blue Devils. So if you want observable similarities that are both uniquly striking and similar,.. well... there you are.

Edited January 20, 2014 by BRASSO

[corpsband]

So when did that video get added to your signature, and, may I ask ... why?

See the beginning of my predictions post...inspired by that video.

(and less than 24 hrs after posting...well done)

Edited January 20, 2014 by corpsband

[corpsband]

As for resources and shows, I observe more identification of much of the fanbase with Star of Indiana and that of the Blue Devils..

......there you are.

Well sure...

and then there's Todd Ryan

[Pete Freedman]

As for resources and shows, I observe more identification of much of the fanbase with Star of Indiana and that of the Blue Devils.. not that of between Star and Crown. Both Star and BD both had good financial resources in their beginnings,, both had entertaining shows that most fans liked. Later on however,, both Corps changed their music, shows, uniforms, etc to that which alienated a lot of former fans. I've never saw Crown ever receive the dislike in many quarters for their shows that both the latter versions of Star received and the current versions of BD are receiving. So for me, except for some staff sharing ( that all Corps have ) I observe WAY more similarities between the Star of Indiana and that of the current Blue Devils.... more so than that btw that of Star of Indiana and current Carolina Crown. Correct me if I'm wrong, but has the Carolina Crown ever been booed for their shows or their placements ? I don't believe so. But the same can not been said for both the latter versions of the Star of Indiana and the current Blue Devils. So if you want observable similarities that are both uniquly striking and similar,.. well... there you are.

Good point. We could probably create a table with top corps along the top and also along the side and at each intersection put similarities, relationships, etc. (i.e. between any two corps). But the point you raise is a big one.

Just curious: My thought was that Star was criticized for the financial issues throughout most of their history, but not really for musical choices as I recall. Is that right? If people did criticize their shows, was it just in the last year (Barber, Bartok) or other years as well? In other words, I always thought 91 and 92 were well received by the fans; in fact it seemed like in those years Star was booed less than usual, perhaps because of the subject matter (religion and patriotism) or because they were performing at a higher level. But I don't know; I wasn't plugged in as much as many people here. What's your recollection?

[BRASSO]

Good point. We could probably create a table with top corps along the top and also along the side and at each intersection put similarities, relationships, etc. (i.e. between any two corps). But the point you raise is a big one.

Just curious: My thought was that Star was criticized for the financial issues throughout most of their history, but not really for musical choices as I recall. Is that right? If people did criticize their shows, was it just in the last year (Barber, Bartok) or other years as well? In other words, I always thought 91 and 92 were well received by the fans; in fact it seemed like in those years Star was booed less than usual, perhaps because of the subject matter (religion and patriotism) or because they were performing at a higher level. But I don't know; I wasn't plugged in as much as many people here. What's your recollection?

I won't attempt to speak for other recollections and experiences at the time, but Star of Indiana were always well received in all their New England shows that I attended in which they performed. There never was any booing at their placements, nor with their shows performed in New England, although I have heard this was not their experience at other shows in other regions . To be fair, their 1993 Corps did not appear that year in New England if my memory serves, and nationally this '93 show was considered a bit out there among some quarters of the national fanbase at the time ( similar to BD of today ). The fact that they were a midwest based Corps might have given them some static more so in the midwest from other midwest based Corps competiing fans there, but thats beyond my capacity to know one way or the other.

Edited January 20, 2014 by BRASSO

[Pete Freedman]

I won't attempt to speak for other recollections and experiences at the time, but Star of Indiana were always well received in all their New England shows that I attended in which they performed. There never was any booing at their placements, nor with their shows performed in New England, although I have heard this was not their experience at other shows in other regions . To be fair, their 1993 Corps did not appear that year in New England if my memory serves, and nationally this '93 show was considered a bit out there among some quarters of the national fanbase at the time ( similar to BD of today ). The fact that they were a midwest based Corps might have given them some static more so in the midwest from other midwest based Corps competiing fans there, but thats beyond my capacity to know one way or the other.

I remember criticism of them from fans, and there was talk of them having to put up with obscenities. On the 93 Fan Network I seem to hear a "G. D. You" near the start and other unintelligible things from those same voices. I've always wondered if anyone knows if those people are complaining because of the material or because of the history. Assuming that's what they're really saying.