star/crown similarities?

[MisterA]

I seem to recall several shows where Star was booed in the 93 season. I remember people being split on whether they liked the 92 show of Star as well, but never did hear boos that season. I think the boos after scores were announced were the first season when Star beat Phantom and Madison. It seemed more like jealousy boos to me, and a majority of the people close to us that were booing were people that appeared to be associated with those 2 corps.

[BRASSO]

When was BD boo'd during or at the end their performance? Boo's at scores yes...boo's during the performance -- never heard it.

Its anecdotal, and perhaps overblown too, who knows. I think I read some tweets on it.. a reviewer on the Stanford show of 6/24 last season on this site says he heard booing, but he makes it unclear in his review if it was after the performance or at the score announcement. But yes, its true, booing a Corps after their performance is almost unheard of in Drum Corps. It's not like the rather routine frequency we see on TV of the home team crowd booing its players and coaches at a home college football game ( or other sport ) for not playing up to par during the course of the game, thats for sure.

Edited January 22, 2014 by BRASSO

[corpsband]

Its anecdotal, and perhaps overblown too, who knows. I think I read some tweets on it.. a reviewer on the Stanford show of 6/24 last season on this site says he heard booing, but he makes it unclear in his review if it was after the performance or at the score announcement. But yes, its true, booing a Corps after their performance is almost unheard of in Drum Corps. It's not like the rather routine frequency we see on TV of the home team crowd booing its players and coaches at a home college football game ( or other sport ) for not playing up to par during the course of the game, thats for sure.

Didn't find the review but I *did* have a great time reading that long thread about the show ( you know the one where the booing fans were ACTUALLY Crown fans bussed in from Fort Mill ! So thanks for the memories :-)

[Pete Freedman]

I've often heard a score announcement boo'd. That's what I call a "boo of praise", because the emotion in the booer's heart appears to be praise for the corps whose score they just boo'd. It's only negative by implication that the next score/corps must be getting criticized, but I always feel like that's still being basically positive.

It's a little harsher when it's for the number 2 spot and there's only one corps left to be criticized by implication, but it seems to me that's less common, even though the passions are pretty high at the top of the order.

[go2thomas]

thank you mistera and pete freedman.

[BRASSO]

I've often heard a score announcement boo'd.  That's what I call a "boo of praise", because the emotion in the booer's heart appears to be praise for the corps whose score they just boo'd.  It's only negative by implication that the next score/corps must be getting criticized, but I always feel like that's still being basically positive.

 

 

   I read this twice, but it went right over my head. I have always attributed booing to be an emotional outburst borne out of frustration on the part of the booer that the judges did not do want they wanted them to do regarding placements in that competition. I've never looked upon the booers act of  audible vocal frustration as a form of praise at all. I always viewed booing as primarily open hostility to the judges in the booth, and not particularly directed toward any particular Corps, staff, or performers. That it was wholly directed to the judges scores and placements. I've seen and heard booers turn around and give the Corps they thought should have placed higher a more thunderous applause either with their score, or later as they exited the field in marching formation with their announcement by the announcer of the Corps name, an enthusiastic round of applause. I attributed this enthusiastic response by audiences as a collective recognition of praise to that Corps for their efforts in the show. In essence, I consider the applause as the ultimate recognition of praise to a Corps show performance ( not the booing ). Oh well, it just shows that some of us do not  look upon what booing means.. and conversely what applause means by contrast... neccessarily in the same manner. And thats cool and all too.

Edited January 22, 2014 by BRASSO

[OrangeHair]

I was at Vanderbilt that year. Star won that show. That particular night they announced the separate categories as well. Well Blue Devils that night tore the freakin' stands down. When they announced Star won General Effect the whole place had this weird perplexed moment about it. Their show that night was a snoozer and they beat Blue Devils in General Effect? Still scratching my head about that one.

Edited January 22, 2014 by OrangeHair

[SACMellos2010]

Well I guess contrary to many I enjoy when these threads start because if we are being compared to Carolina Crown or even BD that means we made an impact and left an impression on an activity that has meant so much to so many. To still be referenced over 20 years later is flaterring and especially with an existence that was WAY too short in only being 9 competitive years.

To answer some of the questions posed.... I do believe that Crown has been adopted by many Star Alums, more from the brass side, as our new "home team" because sadly we do not have one of our own and most likely because many of the people we marched with are now on their brass and visual staff. Our hornline always took great pride in our technique and to listen to what Matt, Ben, Ray and their brass staff now do is utterly amazing to me. I have said on multiple occassions that I would argue our '92 line as well as '91 against any line as best in history UNTIL I heard and witnessed Crown the past 2 years. SO that should answer why it seems many Star alums seem to have adopted Crown.

The next question is the booing issue and it is definitely the biggest part of my drum corps years that I would like to forget. As I believe Brasso said, I do not ever remember being booed in the New Englad area and honestly remember getting more respect there than in any other area of the country. Fans in that region seemed to leave their "home team" bias at the door and took each corps performance in and when they enjoyed it were not afraid to show it. Now the same cannot be said in the Midwest and other than the Bloomington show we seemed to be booed on a nightly basis and yes that included '91 & '92 in addition to the more controversial '93 show. It wasn't fun to experience and I wholeheartedly believe now that it had absolutely nothing to do with our shows or the performances but simply because of the uniforms we wore and the name we were called. Put our performance in a Green or White uniform and the stands may have shook to the ground but that is all water under the bridge.

I am also very glad that the internet didnt exist during our days of competitive existence as that could've been even more ugly that some of the BD stuff I read.

SO as I started this response I will also end in saying that seeing our name reappear with such high praise 20+ years later helps to put the negative responses we received on and off the field back in our day in perspective.

[Nachfolger Christi]

Overall, I suggest the similarity is this: Crown and Star compare in terms of them producing some of the best hornlines in DCI and brass musical performance GE. In terms of percussion, they both are generally unimpressive. In fact, I think that Star and Crown struggle to find a confident identity for their percussion and they are / were the redheaded step children of the corps. In other words, I think the percussion for both corps exists just to support the brass line. Visually, Star had good visual writers, but Crown has inconsistencies in this area that in my opinion may have cost them championships in 2009 and 2012. Crown is generally better in guard than Star. In terms of entertainment, Crown is much better than Star in my opinion in terms of when both began to become champion contenders. I love Star 90 and 91 and I appreciate their innovation in 93 although I do not listen to this show at all. I loved Star's circus show as well. My favorite show of Crown's in terms of entertainment is Crown 2007 (Triple Crown)...in terms of their brass performance, 2013 is the best hornline in the history of DCI so far.

[Plan9]

Well I guess contrary to many I enjoy when these threads start because if we are being compared to Carolina Crown or even BD that means we made an impact and left an impression on an activity that has meant so much to so many. To still be referenced over 20 years later is flaterring and especially with an existence that was WAY too short in only being 9 competitive years.

To answer some of the questions posed.... I do believe that Crown has been adopted by many Star Alums, more from the brass side, as our new "home team" because sadly we do not have one of our own and most likely because many of the people we marched with are now on their brass and visual staff. Our hornline always took great pride in our technique and to listen to what Matt, Ben, Ray and their brass staff now do is utterly amazing to me. I have said on multiple occassions that I would argue our '92 line as well as '91 against any line as best in history UNTIL I heard and witnessed Crown the past 2 years. SO that should answer why it seems many Star alums seem to have adopted Crown.

The next question is the booing issue and it is definitely the biggest part of my drum corps years that I would like to forget. As I believe Brasso said, I do not ever remember being booed in the New Englad area and honestly remember getting more respect there than in any other area of the country. Fans in that region seemed to leave their "home team" bias at the door and took each corps performance in and when they enjoyed it were not afraid to show it. Now the same cannot be said in the Midwest and other than the Bloomington show we seemed to be booed on a nightly basis and yes that included '91 & '92 in addition to the more controversial '93 show. It wasn't fun to experience and I wholeheartedly believe now that it had absolutely nothing to do with our shows or the performances but simply because of the uniforms we wore and the name we were called. Put our performance in a Green or White uniform and the stands may have shook to the ground but that is all water under the bridge.

I am also very glad that the internet didnt exist during our days of competitive existence as that could've been even more ugly that some of the BD stuff I read.

SO as I started this response I will also end in saying that seeing our name reappear with such high praise 20+ years later helps to put the negative responses we received on and off the field back in our day in perspective.

Thanks Brent for the honest appraisal of what it's like at the "receiving end" of thoughtless, nonsensical booing at a drum corps event. As you suggest, it is often regional which makes it even more senseless. I would suggest based on the question posed in this thread, that BD today has much more in common with Star, particularly from an individual performer experience perspective. Both have received the slings and arrows for pushing the envelop in an activity that, too often, prefers to see a reflection of itself and its past. Both, have performed at the highest levels (individually and as an ensemble), but received chiding from those with agendas instead of expected encouragement and appreciation for their effort.

Although your comment about "nothing to do with performance, just the color of uniform" has merit, I still believe that BD and Star aggravated the traditionalists and view/viewed their success as a threat to DC itself. The brass connection with Crown is certainly accurate, but IMO in most other things concerning show design (both visual and music) and performance reception...BD (of recent years) and Star are most similar. They both did/do not fear stepping out on the edge....and the consequences.

On a personal note, my youngin' was on the field in 2010 the night you serenaded him and the other age outs with "when you wish upon a star"...still one of my fondest memories of DC. Your's was a legendary corps.