Blue Stars 2014 "Where the Heart Is"

[Stu]

I get it. But ... ironically, .... the Anthem is being played as Truman is determining his own life direction and begins the journey of his own singular force instead of being the life force consumed by others. The opposite of Powaqqatsi is happening. He is breaking down Powaqqatsi.

If you get the reference, it's quaint ... at the most.

The use of the anthem sounds like an awakening. A theme that grows and bubbles into a more positive force as it develops. Irrespective of the context ... it sounds "right."

Ahhhh.... but the connection to the meaning behind Powaqqatsi and the revelation Truman is experiencing is certainly within context of both Truman and Powaqqatsi!!! I picked this up immediately when I first saw The Truman Show, but did not know if it was intentional. So, to settle my curiosity I sent a question concerning this very thing to the production department at Paramount Studios requesting it to be forwarded to the appropriate person; and to my surprise a member of the Music Editing Department answered that, in fact, this connection was intentional (I am sometimes weird like that, I know).

[N.E. Brigand]

Yes, I would be shaking my head. And I take it by your position that you are fine if the DCI audience remains ignorant to any and all source materials used by corps so long as they garner enjoyment from their ignorance.

Have you never liked, say, an instrumental work for its musical qualities, then been disappointed when you later discovered its original form included lyrics that you found objectionable? Or that the composer intended it to convey a meaning that you disagree with? If the drum corps audience likes "Fancy" for the tune, why do you want to undercut that appreciation by throwing the words at them? Maybe "Fancy" is a better work of art without its lyrics. Maybe "The Chairman Dances" is a better work of art without its nominal program. A hundred years from now, it's quite possible that the music will survive and be appreciated but its supposed raison d'etre will be lost, and the world will be better off for it. Blue Stars are just before their time!

Edited February 7, 2014 by N.E. Brigand

[corpsband]

The members of the audience may have listened to the music; but if they are not aware of the composer's intent for a piece of 'programmatic', not 'absolute', but 'programmatic' music they are still in a state of ignorance. Ignorance is merely lack of knowledge; and if the audience is made aware of the original composers intent of a programmatic piece of music the audience is no longer ignorant and will, in turn, have a deeper enjoyment of what the composer intended. Or, the audience will be confused by the musical choices which create disjunctive story-telling communication. That is not elitist but educational. By the way, this is why I rather despise the nature of DCI shows becoming more and more story-telling ‘programmatic’ in nature where the audience needs to be aware of the background, especially the in-depth historical background of something like Cabaret Voltaire and the Dada movement, to really grasp some of these modern DCI shows. I am not a dinosaur seeking back to better times, but I do wish DCI would get out of this ‘the show concept/design has to tell a story’ and just present ‘absolute music’ non-programmatic show designs with great choreography and drill.

Not surprisingly your entire "reply" is non-responsive. The audience is NOT ignorant -- they have experienced the art in precisely the way the composer intended: WITH THEIR EARS. While it may be satisfying to some to know background material, music makes no such imposition on the listener. They are free to experience the music on it's own terms. If the listener does know the original context of the music, there is still no need for confusion (so long as the music also makes sense in this new context).

This absurd idea that music should somehow be circumscribed by the original context (or indeed by the composer's original intent) is a farce. Once a piece is put out there for the world to experience, it takes on a life of it's own. Listeners may enjoys aspects the composer never imagined. Artists may express the work in an entirely new fashion. Conductors and orchestras may give entirely new meaning to the work. Of course the piece may be consumed in context and in it's original form. But that's just a single aspect of the piece. Beethoven's 9th was never envisioned by the composer as a protest song and revolutionary anthem that it's become in so many places (Chile, Tianamen Sq, and many more).

Your provincial view that music should only occupy the narrow niche the composer originally intends is incomprehensible and actually kind of sad. As the great philosopher said, "Open your mind, Quaid.... open your mind!"

[Stu]

Have you never liked, say, an instrumental work for its musical qualities, but then disappointed when you later discovered its original form included lyrics that you found objectionable? Or that the composer intended it to convey a meaning that you disagree with?

Yes to both accounts; but please note this only applies to music with lyrics and ‘programmatic’ instrumental music which has an originally intended story-line, not ‘absolute’ instrumental music like Sonata for Piano.

[Stu]

Not surprisingly your entire "reply" is non-responsive. The audience is NOT ignorant -- they have experienced the art in precisely the way the composer intended: WITH THEIR EARS. While it may be satisfying to some to know background material, music makes no such imposition on the listener. They are free to experience the music on it's own terms. If the listener does know the original context of the music, there is still no need for confusion (so long as the music also makes sense in this new context).

This absurd idea that music should somehow be circumscribed by the original context (or indeed by the composer's original intent) is a farce. Once a piece is put out there for the world to experience, it takes on a life of it's own. Listeners may enjoys aspects the composer never imagined. Artists may express the work in an entirely new fashion. Conductors and orchestras may give entirely new meaning to the work. Of course the piece may be consumed in context and in it's original form. But that's just a single aspect of the piece. Beethoven's 9th was never envisioned by the composer as a protest song and revolutionary anthem that it's become in so many places (Chile, Tianamen Sq, and many more).

Your provincial view that music should only occupy the narrow niche the composer originally intends is incomprehensible and actually kind of sad. As the great philosopher said, "Open your mind, Quaid.... open your mind!"

Beethoven's 9th Symphony, though it contains the words of Ode to Joy, is a work of ‘absolute music’ not ‘programmatic’. So I see no problems utilizing it within any contextual situation (although I think Beethoven would frown upon it being used in say a porn movie). On the other hand, Beethoven’s opera Fedlio has an actual story-line about how Leonore, disguised as a prison guard named Fidelio, rescues her husband Florestan from death in a political prison. So I do believe some relationship of the original intent should be contextual used when developing a derivative work or story-line which uses music from Fedlio.

Edited February 7, 2014 by Stu

[Stu]

double post

Edited February 7, 2014 by Stu

[corpsband]

Beethoven's 9th Symphony, though it contains the words of Ode to Joy, is a work of ‘absolute music’ not ‘programmatic’. So I see no problems utilizing it within any contextual situation (although I think Beethoven would frown upon it being used in say a porn movie). On the other hand, Beethoven’s opera Fedlio has an actual story-line about how Leonore, disguised as a prison guard named Fidelio, rescues her husband Florestan from death in a political prison. So I do believe some relationship of the original intent should be contextual used when developing a derivative work or story-line which uses music from Fedlio.

This boils down to: "Do what I say because that's what I want". IOW you really have no rational basis for this preference; it is just what you prefer.

That's fine.

But you shouldn't be surprised that many don't share your arbitrary point of view.

Nor should you (imo at least) publicly berate a corps for not following your (silly) "rule".

Edited February 7, 2014 by corpsband

[Stu]

This boils down to: "Do what I say because that's what I want". IOW you really have no rational basis for this preference; it is just what you prefer.

That's fine.

But you shouldn't be surprised that many don't share your arbitrary point of view.

Nor should you (imo at least) publicly berate a corps for not following your (silly) "rule".

I have not berated any corps; just questioned what the connection is concerning Chairman Mao and the Blue Stars conceptual story-line.

[BozzlyB]

Stu, for your mental health, I recommend not watching the Blue Stars show this year. I would hate to see you end up in psych, and clearly the juxtaposition of intent and context would be too much for you.

[GUARDLING]

and sometimes a good piece of music is just that........good music nothing more nothing less.....................sometimes people just need to take a break and just enjoy...............or not.............thats a personal decision and opinion