BigW Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 Perhaps he meant from a design standpoint? Right now there are very few groups that have limitations like DCI, so maybe the PR percussion guy was speaking from that standpoint. Or, perhaps the PR Perc. guy's perception is that since there are not as many competing groups as there were decades ago the activity is dying out? I'd have used different terms like "too Moribund", "restrictive"... And DCI corps numbers appear stable after the shrinkage over time. And from my thoughts on it, there's still a lot of things percussion can do, especially with the use of "world instruments" and different techniques and styles. While it is more restrictive than everything but DCA- from my perspective, I find it a big sandbox with which to play in and still almost limitless in so many aspects. But that's from the outside of DCI design looking in. I just think there's more to what he meant, and it makes me curious. Whether I agree or disagree with what he did say, trying to learn and understand is extremely important. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truman Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 I'd have used different terms like "too Moribund", "restrictive"... And DCI corps numbers appear stable after the shrinkage over time. And from my thoughts on it, there's still a lot of things percussion can do, especially with the use of "world instruments" and different techniques and styles. While it is more restrictive than everything but DCA- from my perspective, I find it a big sandbox with which to play in and still almost limitless in so many aspects. But that's from the outside of DCI design looking in. I just think there's more to what he meant, and it makes me curious. Whether I agree or disagree with what he did say, trying to learn and understand is extremely important. I think a lot has to do with last season, and how things ended with PR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimF-LowBari Posted February 14, 2014 Share Posted February 14, 2014 (edited) What's the point of DCP if no dissenting views are welcomed? Isn't the basic purpose of a forum the free exchange of ideas and opinions? My question for the OP is, if it bothers you to the point that you find the need to post about it several times, why do you keep coming here? Let people post what they want to post. I'm pretty sure they're aware it doesn't do anything unless they stop spending money. We don't need the thought police. First part of post - agree as can't have discussion with only one side of the opinion. Second part - because he cares and think you might have missed his point. Think the point was "B####### here doesn't help, you have to ...... to be heard in the right places". Hey Jeff - 3rd generation corps right? Edited February 14, 2014 by JimF-LowBari 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimF-LowBari Posted February 14, 2014 Share Posted February 14, 2014 (edited) Exactly. Really the only people that should be complaining are those people that have been rigorously attending shows, or contributing to aspects of DCI recently. Not those that show up "sometimes" to a show once every two years, and expect DCI to listen to them. Why would DCI want to please people who haven't been to shows in the past 4 - 5 years even? Don't forget signing things (petitions, etc) online or otherwise. (Reason why I didn't sign).... DCI needs the opinions of those actually using the product. PS - Hope my ramblings come across as concern for the future of the activity and not just gripes. Still care about DCI even if I don't like the current shows enough to go (online or not). Edited February 14, 2014 by JimF-LowBari Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigW Posted February 14, 2014 Share Posted February 14, 2014 First part of post - agree as can't have discussion with only one side of the opinion. Second part - because he cares and think you might have missed his point. Think the point was "B####### here doesn't help, you have to ...... to be heard in the right places". Hey Jeff - 3rd generation corps right? There is more to it, Jim. One of the things that deeply concerned me about the whole DCI petition issue is this: The guy took it down because he was mortified that there was a serious difference of thought and opinion. I believe and have believed strongly in dissent. What makes this really ironic to me is when I saw the guy took the petition down and why, I immediately thought of the 2006 Blue Stars program (one of the best shows to not make DCI finals if I may say so myself), which was about the "Four Freedoms" as outlined by FDR in his 1941 State of the Union Address. I thought of the Rockwell paintings that were done in early 1943, and this painting: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/9f/%22Freedom_of_Speech%22_-_NARA_-_513536.jpg The guy was exercising the right to thoughtful dissent and he became afraid to do so! Whether I agree or not with the guy does not matter one iota. What breaks my heart is his the fact he became afraid to speak out about something that obviously moved him and over 4k individuals from what I gather. No one should feel afraid to do so. Not here. Not anywhere in the free world. Jeff is also exercising his right and offering a very fair suggestion to people as well. J.D. Shaw has recently said the ..."consumers will decide"... this issue. That is another very fair and thoughtful idea as well. Jeff simply extrapolated upon that. Just my tuppence. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimF-LowBari Posted February 14, 2014 Share Posted February 14, 2014 And when Jeff directs anything there's usually a reason behind it and not just crap for the sake of giving crap. At least not in the initial post anyway.... And if he gives us crap, then we talk to his Dad "uh Wally?" For everyone elses benefit have know Jeff when he was about 11. and I could still look to him eye to eye. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truman Posted February 14, 2014 Share Posted February 14, 2014 There is more to it, Jim. One of the things that deeply concerned me about the whole DCI petition issue is this: The guy took it down because he was mortified that there was a serious difference of thought and opinion. I believe and have believed strongly in dissent. What makes this really ironic to me is when I saw the guy took the petition down and why, I immediately thought of the 2006 Blue Stars program (one of the best shows to not make DCI finals if I may say so myself), which was about the "Four Freedoms" as outlined by FDR in his 1941 State of the Union Address. I thought of the Rockwell paintings that were done in early 1943, and this painting: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/9f/%22Freedom_of_Speech%22_-_NARA_-_513536.jpg The guy was exercising the right to thoughtful dissent and he became afraid to do so! Whether I agree or not with the guy does not matter one iota. What breaks my heart is his the fact he became afraid to speak out about something that obviously moved him and over 4k individuals from what I gather. No one should feel afraid to do so. Not here. Not anywhere in the free world. Jeff is also exercising his right and offering a very fair suggestion to people as well. J.D. Shaw has recently said the ..."consumers will decide"... this issue. That is another very fair and thoughtful idea as well. Jeff simply extrapolated upon that. Just my tuppence. Great stuff here... And for the record, I was kinda over the top with my post, but I really do agree with Jeff. I was merely pointing out that actions speak louder than words and protest is not easy. Walking away from something you love, or have loved, is hard to do. I also feel we should not be so quick to make threats we cannot keep. Many consumers do this because the threat gets as much attention as the act in a lot of places. The thing that intrigues me is the initial reaction thing. Not the well, I thought about it and it may not be as bad as I thought part. Surely DCI knew what the initial reaction would be, yet I see little in the way of managing or even attempting to control it. It actually seems like they welcomed it in some way. A type of rules congress flame bait if you will? Especially considering the seemingly limited value or benefit of the proposal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted February 14, 2014 Author Share Posted February 14, 2014 What's the point of DCP if no dissenting views are welcomed? Isn't the basic purpose of a forum the free exchange of ideas and opinions? My question for the OP is, if it bothers you to the point that you find the need to post about it several times, why do you keep coming here? Let people post what they want to post. I'm pretty sure they're aware it doesn't do anything unless they stop spending money. We don't need the thought police. dissenting is one thing. the end of the world melodrama thats over the top is another....and DCI doesn't care what's said here unless something internal is leaked. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted February 14, 2014 Author Share Posted February 14, 2014 Jeff, I have a question about something you said- DCI reported a profitable year, yet, the one PR percussion guy evidently referred to DCI as "dying" according to what was quoted in the 75+page thread. Is there a dichotomy with those two statements or something I'm not aware of that could cause the two of them to exist? I also am with you and Truman on one thing- All of us, agree or disagree, are more alike than different in several aspects, whether we like it or not. We all kissed the book and signed up somewhere to perform with a corps because we wanted a challenge, we wanted to be part of a special organization where everyone wanted to be there and be as great as they can be, not because Mommy and Daddy made them, and we want to light up the crowd. I really enjoy talking to people active now in DCI or DCA, all great people, and we do have a lot in common. I think some people need to do more of that, and think about that. I think it would help perspectives a little. well Hop has been crying financial doom and gloom for several years now, hence the G7 motivation ( at least for publicity's sake, we all know it was about control and more of the money)....but my guess is the PR FORMER drum guy thinks that marching band and indoor is ahead of DCI in terms of innovation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted February 14, 2014 Author Share Posted February 14, 2014 Why they haven't been in 4 or 5 years is why DCI should want to listen to them? Maybe, just maybe...a vote for something as seemingly "simple" and logical as this could create another group of people who will say 5 years from now that they haven't been in 5 years? I do suppose some people might just be looking for an excuse or justification for not supporting the cause for other reasons, but I am sure there are some that have had genuine bad feelings from what, and how things have been done. I would also venture to say that there are many in favor of this, or who don't see the big deal, that haven't been to shows in the last 5 years as well. Should DCI not consider their feelings? IMO, I think any smart business should try to find out why customers aren't returning. I haven't been to Jos. A. banks to buy clothes for 6 months. I got a call asking if everything was ok or if I had taken my business elsewhere. they were pleased when i told them i hadn't lost any more weight, so i didn't need anything for a while and I'd be back 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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