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The Entertainment Proposal... The one that didn't pass


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"Popularity" has no relationship to a degree of performance accomplishment. Or put another way...the New York Yankees have won several World Series since the mid-70s...yet in how many of those did they go into the Series as being the most "popular?" The same could be said about any athletic team which has built a history of winning (Lakers, Cowboys, etc.).

I think it's an extremely slippery slope to negotiate when we begin to assess any individual corps's performance by taking into account how "popular" it was to the audience. I'm not saying that the audience at large isn't capable of knowing good from less-than-good...but at the end of the day, we all have our favorites. And to introduce any amount of this bias into assessment is both dangerous and irresponsible to the performers. Not saying I'm right...just my observation.

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"Popularity" has no relationship to a degree of performance accomplishment. Or put another way...the New York Yankees have won several World Series since the mid-70s...yet in how many of those did they go into the Series as being the most "popular?" The same could be said about any athletic team which has built a history of winning (Lakers, Cowboys, etc.).

I think it's an extremely slippery slope to negotiate when we begin to assess any individual corps's performance by taking into account how "popular" it was to the audience. I'm not saying that the audience at large isn't capable of knowing good from less-than-good...but at the end of the day, we all have our favorites. And to introduce any amount of this bias into assessment is both dangerous and irresponsible to the performers. Not saying I'm right...just my observation.

Careful with the athletic analogies: it is a canard among some DCP participants that such comparisons are always inappropriate!

As for popularity vs. performance level, others may have meant to link them, but speaking for myself, I wasn't suggesting that popularity should affect the scores, but only the purse. The biggest money-making movie of 2013 was Iron Man 3. Although the "Rotten Tomatoes" site indicates it was generally well received by critics, I doubt it made a single critic's "top ten" list for 2013 (certainly it didn't make many) and I know that it was nominated for just one technical Academy Award.

On the other hand, Nebraska made lots of critics' lists and has six Academy Award nominations, including Best Picture, but ts box office earnings put it at #123 for the year.

Were the Madison Scouts the drum corps Iron Man 3 of 2013: loved by the fans but largely passed over by the judges? Were the Blue Devils the Nebraska of 2013, loved by the judges but mostly ignored by the fans? And should the Scouts be rewarded and the Devils penalized accordingly in financial terms? DCI controls one part of the "box office" of drum corps: is it being distributed properly?

Edited by N.E. Brigand
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Sorry, N.E. But thank you for the guidance...I'll be sure not to cross-pollenate the separate music/athletic existinces again. Thank you again for the help.

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Careful with the athletic analogies: it is a canard among some DCP participants that such comparisons are always inappropriate!

As for popularity vs. performance level, others may have meant to link them, but speaking for myself, I wasn't suggesting that popularity should affect the scores, but only the purse. The biggest money-making movie of 2013 was Iron Man 3. Although the "Rotten Tomatoes" site indicates it was generally well received by critics, I doubt it made a single critic's "top ten" list for 2013 (certainly it didn't make many) and I know that it was nominated for just one technical Academy Award.

On the other hand, Nebraska made lots of critics' lists and has six Academy Award nominations, including Best Picture, but ts box office earnings put it at #123 for the year.

Were the Madison Scouts the drum corps Iron Man 3 of 2013: loved by the fans but largely passed over by the judges? Were the Blue Devils the Nebraska of 2013, loved by the judges but mostly ignored by the fans? And should the Scouts be rewarded and the Devils penalized accordingly in financial terms? DCI controls one part of the "box office" of drum corps: is it being distributed properly?

Interesting for sure and i get what you are saying but my question would be is....what makes one think that a very popular ( by whatever def. ) corps actually sells more tickets...It is still a competition and being on tour for many many years those upper corps are still the corps people run to see, discuss and yes debate, if they personally like them or their style or not .

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I think it's an extremely slippery slope to negotiate when we begin to assess any individual corps's performance by taking into account how "popular" it was to the audience. I

While perhaps true, it is also a slippery slope when too many top placing Corps shows need to have a preseason sit down talk between their show designers and the judges for the upcoming season so the the judges will no longer be confused as to what their convoluted Theme- Show is going to be all about. We have gone off the track a bit here of late when shows leave too many fans and judges alike having the look of chronic constipation because, while well performed and executed, few know what in Hades the show is all about. The Perfoming Arts is designed at its most fundamental level to communicate a story thru music and visual and typically without words. Its a " slippery slope " when the DCI Judges requested a couple of years back a sit down preseason meeting to TALK about what the Show was going to be about... something the thousands of coast to coast DCI ticket purchasers to these shows are not afforded. The DCI entertainment proposal chief aim is to tweek the judging system to reward shows with ( their quote ) "good audience communication skills with their show", and conversely, to disreward a bit those shows, while well performed and executed, by contrast, were not as well communicated to the audience. I agree with the need for change in this area. And please do not confuse " popular " with " communication skill levels " They are not the same. This DCI proposal is not asking to reward the " popular " Corps, Corps show. You misunderstand the proposal if you have thought this.

Edited by BRASSO
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I like the idea of entertainment being part of the score, but I can't come up with any objective way to judge it. Have a judge not watch the show and only watch the crowds? Hey, they look like they're having fun. 17.85. The only real way to judge entertainment value is with fans buying or not buying tickets. If they find DCI entertaining, they will continue to purchase tickets.

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I like the idea of entertainment being part of the score, but I can't come up with any objective way to judge it. .

While true, there is nothing objective at all about judging Drum Corps shows. We start from the premise that all of it is purely and wholly subjective. We are asking judges to compare and contrast completely dissimilar things. .judges oftentimes even disagree within captions with their other judging colleagues that are likewise well trained and experienced judges . Asking a judge to determine a Corps communicative abilities with their show performance compared with other Corps communicative skills in that competition, is no less subjective in my view than what the judges are already being asked to do.

Edited by BRASSO
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I like the idea of entertainment being part of the score, but I can't come up with any objective way to judge it. Have a judge not watch the show and only watch the crowds? Hey, they look like they're having fun. 17.85. The only real way to judge entertainment value is with fans buying or not buying tickets. If they find DCI entertaining, they will continue to purchase tickets.

that really doesnt work either....audience can be a huge difference from show to show and have little or even nothing to do with who was actually better..as far as buying tickets I think people buy tickets and go to see a competition , like always. and that doesnt have to have anything to do with who is most popular...entertainment is a very subjective word and could have nothing to do with whos best. Now if you dont want to make it a competition anymore than thats a different story I guess

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that really doesnt work either....audience can be a huge difference from show to show and have little or even nothing to do with who was actually better..as far as buying tickets I think people buy tickets and go to see a competition , like always. and that doesnt have to have anything to do with who is most popular...entertainment is a very subjective word and could have nothing to do with whos best. Now if you dont want to make it a competition anymore than thats a different story I guess

Sorry, that was suppsoed to be sarcasm. The Internet really needs a sarcasm font. ;-) I guess the best thing to do is to not care about the scores. Be entertained when you're entertained.

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