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Members have changed so why not the activity


Tupac

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Simple. It's "Band". Buncha freaks and geeks. The people you crack the line about Band Camp from "American Pie" to when you meet them. Not to be taken seriously like a "real" sport.

Heck, there are people especially in the NY metro area that don't think anything beyond the stick and ball sports are sports. They don't think of Tennis as a sport for crying out loud, and NASCAR drivers, athletes? Nah. Listen to WFAN enough and you'll hear that opinion a lot.

funny but true story. I was teaching a band for several years...this was in the north east....it was late october and doing runs...in the icy rain..i a parking lot next to the HS field. ( football got the field of course )....there was a little 5' maybe 90 lbs little girl in the guard , ( new ) struggling to keep up in a guard that was extremely successful . when it satrted to rain the football team was let go and headed to the back of the lot to cars to leave...a big burley football player made a wise remark to this little girl..something like ( which I heard and was ready to step in but didn't have to ) you Fxxxxx crazy, and was laughing . why you doing this Sxxx I would leave................Her response to this person who could have sat on her and killed her...said " maybe if you practiced more and didnt worry about a little rain you MIGHT win a game...then told him to move along......it was amazing

Edited by GUARDLING
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Do Merriam-Webster, Oxford, Cambridge, et al, define "drum corps" as a sport? I'm having trouble even locating a definition in any of the "authoritative cultural sources," either online or in hard copy texts. The only definition I've found for "drum corps" was on a site called dictionary.com. It's not as prestigious in name as those others, but at least it had SOME kind of definition for "drum corps."

drum corps

-noun
a band, especially a marching band, of drum players usually under the direction of a drum major.
Origin:

1860–65, Americanism

Well I'll be diggers. Drum Corps is Marching Band; and it is a Marching Band that just consists of drummers and a drum major with no reference at all of it being an Art. That is great!!!! Thanks!!!! :w00t:

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If drum corps is marching band, then drum corps is not a sport.

At the _kid's freshman orientation there were no less than 21 sports that the kids could sign up to do. It was it's own 15 minute discussion of the 1-hour orientation session.

Band was an "activity", like yoga, and shop class. The entire group of "activities" didn't even warrant a specific sentence during the session.

They did say, however, that kids who took marching band or guard were exempt from the mandatory PE each year.

Drum corps and marching band are, and always will be, art. It is defined as such by sports teams and their leaders, who will never accept that geeks with trumpets work as hard as their sports team do. It's simply not in their belief set (not coincidentally to make sure that school funding is directed at the "more important" scholastic sports and not at scholastic "arts").

There's no lack of testosterone among the sports coaches. Band directors are dandy.

Edited by garfield
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If drum corps is marching band, then drum corps is not a sport.

At the _kid's freshman orientation there were no less than 21 sports that the kids could sign up to do. It was it's own 15 minute discussion of the 1-hour orientation session.

Band was an "activity", like yoga, and shop class. The entire group of "activities" didn't even warrant a specific sentence during the session.

They did say, however, that kids who took marching band or guard were exempt from the mandatory PE each year.

Drum corps and marching band are, and always will be, art. It is defined as such by sports teams and their leaders, who will never accept that geeks with trumpets work as hard as their sports team do. It's simply not in their belief set (not coincidentally to make sure that school funding is directed at the "more important" scholastic sports and not at scholastic "arts").

There's no lack of testosterone among the sports coaches. Band directors are dandy.

ya know how you get more than the sports teams......be better than them....attract more kids, have an army of band parents fighting for recognition...be willing to go to the news if necessary ...ive seen it done before and work...unfortunately Ive seen the opposite also where a gym or field will stay empty and still band or guard kids cant use it.....shameful

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Do Merriam-Webster, Oxford, Cambridge, et al, define "drum corps" as a sport? I'm having trouble even locating a definition in any of the "authoritative cultural sources," either online or in hard copy texts. The only definition I've found for "drum corps" was on a site called dictionary.com. It's not as prestigious in name as those others, but at least it had SOME kind of definition for "drum corps."

drum corps

-noun
a band, especially a marching band, of drum players usually under the direction of a drum major.
Origin:

1860–65, Americanism

I'll be the first to admit, dictionary.com is not something I would immediately run to in order to find the definition of a word, because it DOES lack that authoritative nature of the other sources you mention. And like anyone else, I laughed at their definition of drum corps because it so clearly does not fit in my mind as anything resembling what I've come to know about the activity. But after that laughter subsided, I had to ask...is anything that definition states untrue? It may have left many things out, but it hasn't really made any false statements. That's kind of the problem with running to the dictionary to solve these types of quandaries. You're so busy telling everyone the definition of sport, and band, and corps, and drum, and art, but certainly you have to realize that what truly matters here is the definition of DRUM CORPS. And you have yet to really define that term for anyone, at least by utilizing those great authoritative cultural sources we all hold in such high esteem. And for one simple reason. Those sources don't even (so far as I know) actually define drum corps.

[...]

I have one final thing I'll say on the subject and then I'll leave it to you to tell me how wrong I am by citing even more definitions of other terms without actually referencing any authoritative cultural definition of the one term that matters here, that being "drum corps."

I'm not trying to go after you Seen-it-all, I just wanted to point out one thing about your use of "Drum Corps". It's a shorten version of "Drum and Bugle Corps".

In our context it is generally this:

It could be a "Fife and Drum Corps" in some contexts:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KS-u1V5Yh_cp

or it could literally be a "Drum Corps" like this one:

You defined the latter, not either of the former versions of "Drum Corps". Clearly they are all different.

This is why words are important in language. You didn't try to look up the correct group.

That being said, I don't know if it's a sport or an art. It has aspects of both. Maybe it's both?

Edited by jjeffeory
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That being said, I don't know if it's a sport or an art. It has aspects of both. Maybe it's both?

taco-girl-meme-generator-por-que-no-los-

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I'm not trying to go after you Seen-it-all, I just wanted to point out one thing about your use of "Drum Corps". It's a shorten version of "Drum and Bugle Corps".

In our context it is generally this:

It could be a "Fife and Drum Corps" in some contexts:

or it could literally be a "Drum Corps" like this one:

You defined the latter, not either of the former versions of "Drum Corps". Clearly they are all different.

This is why words are important in language. You didn't try to look up the correct group.

That being said, I don't know if it's a sport or an art. It has aspects of both. Maybe it's both?

Fair enough. I was merely going off the term as given by who I was debating. (And I agree with you in that I don't know exactly how to classify it either. Not quite a sport. Not quite art. But elements of both. I keep going back to the word hybrid, and even that doesn't really get to a definitive answer.) It still doesn't alter my point, though. A dictionary definition of 'drum and bugle corps' will merely define what the group is. It won't bother getting into whether or not what that group can sometimes do is a sport, or art, or whatever. It is therefore up to individual to interpret the meaning of that term the best we can, whether we utilize authoritative sources or real world experience or a little of both.

I'm glad you brought this up, though. I think the wonderful video examples you posted get to the root of the issue as to why some folks outside our bubble have an easier time accepting something like figure skating or ice dancing as sports and not drum corps or marching band. I think the answer lies in the origins. When it comes to things such as figure skating, ice dancing, synchronized swimming, rhythmic gymnastics, etc., the derivative nature and origins of those sports are purely athletic in nature. Skating. Swimming. Gymnastics. That is the essence of what those who participate in those things do, and they have obviously added the interpretation of pre-recorded music to the equation and developed their own representative techniques and skills unique to what they do.

The origins of drum corps and marching band don't really have that athletic base to draw upon. The origins were primarily military or ceremonial, and (it cannot be underestimated) musical in nature. Fifes. Drums. Bugles. Fanfares and flourishes. Add in other wind instruments. Parades. Marches. Football fields and competition and how we think about drum corps today didn't even come into the equation until long after these groups came into existence. Of course, opinions and definitions can change over time. People didn't start out swimming in the water to a musical routine in competition until long after the invention of swimming. And perhaps someday, something like drum corps or marching band will come to be accepted as "sport" by more than just a portion of its participants. That would be pretty awesome, but I'm not willing to bet we'll see it in our lifetimes.

It should also be noted, there are many people out there who don't consider figure skating (or any judged athletic competition) to be sports either, whether they're in the Olympics or not. Doesn't make them right or wrong, but it does somewhat add to the cultural spirit of the times. And all that does is bring us back to the whole issue of semantics and what one personally believes.

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If one were to go by nothing other than the level of physical exertion inherent in the activity, then I suppose there are those who would consider DC to be much more of a sport than "accepted" sports such as golf, bowling, or skeet shooting. Personally, I find the entire discussion to be, while fascinating, also rather trivial. And let's not forget...it was DCI who one year changed the name of their end-of-year "tournament" to the "Summer Music GAMES" (although maybe it was PBS who was primarily responsible for this -- even so, DCI apparently tacitly concurred with the decision). I'm not sure what ramifications this has for activities such as musical chairs, but....

Edited by HornTeacher
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And all that does is bring us back to the whole issue of semantics and what one personally believes.

This ‘what one personally believes’ concerning the use of semantics gets us right back into that perception is reality nonsense. Many, and I mean a bucket load, of concert orchestral symphonic Pianists will argue with me, they will stand their ground in their own personal belief structure about pianos, but that does not change the reality that a piano is, by definition, a percussion instrument. And one can attempt to place a slide-whistle into the category of auxiliary percussion, but that does not change the realty that it is actually, in reality, a wind instrument and nowhere close to being a percussion Instrument (unless you use it to make a sound while hitting me over the head). Point being is that Scholastic Athletic Directors, and many drum corps people, may not perceive DCI as a sport, but they are being obtuse because DCI certainly has all the elements which make it a Sport; many people outside the drum corps activity, and some within the activity, may not see DCI as an Art activity, but they are being obtuse because DCI certainly has all the elements which make it an Art; most Drum Corps people perceive drum corps as something vastly different than a marching band, but they are also being obtuse because in reality, by all definitions of the words “Marching’ and ‘Band’, the performing units within DCI, DCA, VFW, et all are, and have always been, marching bands. I will concede, however, that perception influences belief structures, perception influences behavior, and that perception will influence situations; but I will not concede that perception changes the reality of something, even down to minor items such as a slide-whistle being a wind instrument and not a percussion instrument.

Edited by Stu
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