GUARDLING Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 (edited) I was part of the BITD period as well as still involved today...as far as numbers I dont really care to be honest BUT as far as talent. WE...bitd were very talented to produce what we did with the lack of education we may have had coming into the activity. I personally was taught by some of the best in the activity , Don Angelica, Truman Crawford, Hy Drietzer, and several others and they helped make us what we were. NOW kids are doing way more, way harder and if one needs to compare, which to me doesn't really make sense because all things would have to be equal including outside elements,there is far more collected talent coming into the activity than ever...Numbers? whatever they may be , more members now , more then, is not the point i think. The point is MMs today however many there are IMO are so beyond what we ever would have dreamed could have been done and at the level its being done...JMO now that doesnt take anything away from what we did BITD after all if not for what we did, today wouldnt be what it is . JMO Edited February 20, 2014 by GUARDLING Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie1223 Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 (edited) I was part of the BITD period as well as still involved today...as far as numbers I dont really care to be honest BUT as far as talent. WE...bitd were very talented to produce what we did with the lack of education we may have had coming into the activity. I personally was taught by some of the best in the activity , Don Angelica, Truman Crawford, Hy Drietzer, and several others and they helped make us what we were. NOW kids are doing way more, way harder and if one needs to compare, which to me doesn't really make sense because all things would have to be equal including outside elements,there is far more collected talent coming into the activity than ever...Numbers? whatever they may be , more members now , more then, is not the point i think. The point is MMs today however many there are IMO are so beyond what we ever would have dreamed could have been done and at the level its being done...JMO now that doesnt take anything away from what we did BITD after all if not for what we did, today wouldnt be what it is . JMO No one wants to take away from the talent that was exhibited BITD. But i think for anyone to say that either that one generation was more talented or that one generation had overall "more" individuals with talent is a moot point. The standards for talent and who is talented change in an activity such as this. Edited February 20, 2014 by charlie1223 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUARDLING Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 (edited) No one wants to take away from the talent that was exhibited BITD. But i think for anyone to say that either that one generation was more talented or that one generation had overall "more" individuals with talent is a moot point. The standards for talent and who is talented change in an activity such as this. agree...............i didnt think anyone was trying to take anything away from anyone Edited February 20, 2014 by GUARDLING Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 (edited) ...Numbers? whatever they may be , more members now , more then, is not the point i think. Well, its the point I responded to. I did not raise the comparison about who was doing things" harder", and thats a separate topic altogether, and not what we were discussing so far on here. So I see no need to respond to something like a comparison of BITD with doing " harder " things compared with today. It would be like I changed the subject to crowd size and entertainment levels, visibility numbers with the public compared to earlier eras and today, or so forth. These would not be appropriate as well it seems to me as its not germane at all to what the OP said above. Edited February 20, 2014 by BRASSO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 (edited) . But i think for anyone to say that either that one generation was more talented . It sure is.. as nobody said anything of the sort on this thread about a comparison of who was" more talented ". So why did you bring THAT up ? And whats with the gymnastics comparison ? Are you utilizing this to compare the increased numbers of those doing gymnastics world wide in the 60's and that of today doing gymnastics worldwide with the numbers doing Drum Corps in the 60's worldwide compared with today's numbers doing Drum Corps ?. Also, there is very little difference at all in the sport of the Vault in gymnastics from the 60's to today. Its not like the gymnasts in this sport can now uliizes a pole vault to vault over the horse now, so I'm not quite sure how the lack of changes in the sport of gymnastics since 1960 can be adequately utilized in a comparison of a sport that today we reallty are not quite sure anymore WHAT it is... is it even really a sport ? or not ? Is it a Marching Band or not ? is it a Drum and Bugle Corps? or not ? So much confusion. Nobody is confused on what the sport that you are depicting here is however... so I'm not getting why you brought this pic into the discussion. Also, we've been admonished a lot on here that we can not compare what it is we are now with a " competitive sport " ( although DCI ironically tried that very approach with the folks at ESPN.. but it didn't fly ultimately with the sports producers at ESPN. They were pretty decisive that its not a sport.. or at least one not suitable for promoting on their station anyway ) Edited February 20, 2014 by BRASSO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N.E. Brigand Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 I'm curious that you believe the level of music being performed today is higher. I think it's different. My perspective is that the level of the music (for the brass at least) is often lower; much of the meat is now shifted to the pit. The playing style is different as well. The instruments are different too. A LOT of this is simply due to arrangements, instruments, and pedagogy; not the performer. I'm surprised no one has disputed this argument; I remember that last summer in the DCA forums, something similar was suggested as regards the change to both brass and percussion technique through the years, and much argument followed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUARDLING Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 (edited) Well, its the point I responded to. I did not raise the comparison about who was doing things" harder", and thats a separate topic altogether, and not what we were discussing so far on here. So I see no need to respond to something like a comparison of BITD with doing " harder " things compared with today. It would be like I changed the subject to crowd size and entertainment levels, visibility numbers with the public compared to earlier eras and today, or so forth. These would not be appropriate as well it seems to me as its not germane at all to what the OP said above. I Thought in post #5 it was mentioned that there were more talented in all areas BITD..unless all you were talking were numbers as in size not talent If I misunderstood , sorry about that Edited February 20, 2014 by GUARDLING Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 the funny thing is 2/3 years ago DCI did a survey, and kids didn't want woodwinds. but some adults do.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 (edited) It's just an opinion but I got to thinking about members of the first DCI corps in 1972. Most were kids off of the street with no music backround or education. . . And, as the membership changes so will the type of crowd that is attracted to the activity. . I do agree that " the crowd willl change ". Since the Corps marchers of today by and large are entering the comparatively lower paying fields of education, and particularly the lower paying jobs in Marching Bands it remains to be seen if these people will have sufficent personal funds to contribute fiancially back to the activity in sustainable financial numbers. Many of the earlier marchers that were not " Music Majors " BITD tended after Drum Corps to gravitate toward more lucrative paying jobs and more stable careers.. not all, but many. They learned the skills in Corps to become successful Business Owners, well paid Skilled Tradesmen, Physicians, CPA's, Attorney's Economists, FInancial Planners Chemists, Urban Planners, Architects, Advertising Execs, Stockbrokers,, and so forth. Steve Rondinaro came out of Corps and later went into TV in a Communications field in the private sector, taking him ultimately to a well paying position at a news station in Miami. Remember also,, the catalyst for the Star of Indiana ( Bill Cook ) did not come out of the field of Education, Music.. he was a businessman in the private sector and became the 2nd richest man in the state of Indiana thru his entrepreneurial enterprises. So you are correct that the future " crowd " in the future will be different in its makeup, especially in its finances. Nobody goes into teaching Music to students in the schools and in the Band to become rich. We all understand this. And so naturally, most never do become wealthy. Its the noble patth they choose to eschew good paying jobs for a profession they hope will bring them more joy and personal fulfilment.. But if your crowd is not filled with deep pocket supporters than of course this presents fund raising problems with future alums when the Corps come calling for some much needed money donations to keep these expensive Corps afloat. The Corps of today arn't getting the bulk their big dollar donations from the H;S. Band Directors community at present.. we should all be able to agree with this anyway it seems to me. But in the future they just might have to if the alums ranks down the road are chock full of former Music Education Majors that by then will be in comparatively lower paying jobs compared to others with degrees in other college majors or in a higher paying skilled trade. On the other hand, maybe these Music Major degreed Alums will be so enamored of Drum Corps that they will make up for this personal lower income by contributing a higher percentage of their personal finances each year than donors of today are contributing. Thats an optimistic hoped for result. But it does bear watching in future years it seems to me as the " type of crowd", I agree, will be decidedly different in future years. Edited February 20, 2014 by BRASSO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 I Thought in post #5 it was mentioned that there were more talented in all areas BITD..unless all you were talking were numbers as in size not talent If I misunderstood , sorry about that No problem.. you recognized your misinterpretation of my remarks, and upon reflection, understood it, and better yet, acknowledged it. Good form from you I must acknowledge now, Guardling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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