fsubone Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 Not all members today are music ed majors, same way not all members BITD were random kids off of the street. There is a large number of music majors, but there are lots that major in many other fields. I've marched with people who are now lawyers and doctors, business owners, biologists, pharmacists, engineers, and teachers. There is a pretty eclectic group of kids that find their way into the drum corps ranks every year. But I do believe that the pre-training of members is higher than it was back in the 70s. So many kids now are coming in from high school band programs that to meet a kid in a WC corps that hadn't done any kind of marching before will be pretty rare. Part of that seems to be the expansion of corps-style marching bands across the country, but I don't have a large enough research field to make any kind of assumption. That should appease some on here. Everything is just things I've discovered and learned in my travels. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjeffeory Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 I'm surprised no one has disputed this argument; I remember that last summer in the DCA forums, something similar was suggested as regards the change to both brass and percussion technique through the years, and much argument followed. I'm surprised that no one has disputed my assertion as well. I'll check out that thread, but this is something that I've asserted many times on DCP the past few years. Maybe people are tired of disagreeing with me? I've gone back and listened to older DCI recordings and watched DCI video and I can pretty confidentally say that most of the horn books now don't have the same number of notes in them as before the addition of synths. There's some exceptions each year, but I'm thinking subjective average brass book "difficulty" in conjunction with instrument limitation compensation techniques, et cetera. I know that difficulty is more about notes. BD has some of the most complex harmonic books around, and they have ALWAYS had that. Crown has some difficult stuff as well every year too. The thread is young, so we'll see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjeffeory Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 Not all members today are music ed majors, same way not all members BITD were random kids off of the street. There is a large number of music majors, but there are lots that major in many other fields. I've marched with people who are now lawyers and doctors, business owners, biologists, pharmacists, engineers, and teachers. There is a pretty eclectic group of kids that find their way into the drum corps ranks every year. But I do believe that the pre-training of members is higher than it was back in the 70s. So many kids now are coming in from high school band programs that to meet a kid in a WC corps that hadn't done any kind of marching before will be pretty rare. Part of that seems to be the expansion of corps-style marching bands across the country, but I don't have a large enough research field to make any kind of assumption. That should appease some on here. Everything is just things I've discovered and learned in my travels. It's sounds like it's the same as it ever was to me. I believe that things did change in the 70s music education-wise as more schools offered music education. By the 1980s, most schools across the nation had school music programs, and marching bands. Yes, there are more high schools today than back then, but it seems that budget cuts are causing school music program to suffer. I know my district added one more high school than when attended back then, but also redrew the attendence lines so my marching band went from ~200 to ~100 students. The new school started with ~140 members. The other high schools in the district went from ~250 to ~200 members and ~60 to ~100 students. So to me it looks like it went from ~510 students district wide to ~540 students district wide for only a slight addition of marching band members in the district even though a new high school was added. Also, I keep hearing about music programs being cut in the East coast especially. One year in the recent past my old school district levy failed and marching band (and all sports) was cancelled for the 4 high schools in the district that year. It really hurt the numbers for 2 of the high schools the next several years. I can imagine that Texas is adding many students to the count though, and possibly California too ( even though it's rough out here), but places like Wisconsin have much LESS participation and marching bands today than in the past. I'm not sure where the numbers would really be. All that to say that I agree with you, kids today are more prepared for DCI than they were in the 70s. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fsubone Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 I've gone back and listened to older DCI recordings and watched DCI video and I can pretty confidentally say that most of the horn books now don't have the same number of notes in them as before the addition of synths. There's some exceptions each year, but I'm thinking subjective average brass book "difficulty" in conjunction with instrument limitation compensation techniques, et cetera. I know that difficulty is more about notes. BD has some of the most complex harmonic books around, and they have ALWAYS had that. Crown has some difficult stuff as well every year too. The thread is young, so we'll see. I think part of the "less" notes in brass books is because people realized that cramming notes didn't always lead to clean playing. In a lot of those recordings, there are errors that come from them trying to cram as many notes into the book as they can. So designers started utilizing the pit more, in order to give the brass a chance to play cleaner in the long-term. At least that's my read. And you're right that there is more to difficulty than just notes. While Crown this year and last year are extremely hard for their technical prowess, BD this year and SCV 2009 are on the other end of the spectrum, where harmonic and dynamic challenges are what made their brass books so difficult. As long as the judges and crowds can see what is being achieved, then everything should be okay. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IllianaLancerContra Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 (edited) I agree that members have changed. But I suspect it is because back in the 70's, several corps recruited HS band kids (rather than whomever walked (or was dragged)) through the door. These kids could read music, and most had an idea of the basics of marching. So, they went further because they started further along. As an example, I suggest Spirit of Atlanta. I read somewhere (DCP years ago, posted by one of the original members) that at first, they were the 'Cobb HS band w/ bugles'. They went to DCI, and scored real well their first year (20th or something like that in 1977. I don't have time right now to look on Corpsreps). The article also said that they were terrified of many other corps - these were HS kids from suburban Atlanta; Boston was a bunch of southies. Bayonne..so forth & so on. But, they were successful competitively, I suspect perhaps because they started with a more talented membership. Other corps saw this, and started to recruit from the same talent pool. So yes, membership has changed. So has society. But, has it changed for the better? I wish there was some way to go back & serve the local community be giving these kids something to do (i.e., get to this spot on count 8) vs sitting around playing video games, or, worse, engaging in hoodlumism. When I win the lottery I plan to take up DCI's tweet & start a local circuit somewhere w/ G bugles etc (you can still get them on ebay). rant off. Time to go to work. Edited February 20, 2014 by IllianaLancerContra Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tesmusic Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 There were more talented performers performing in competitive Drum Corps in the 60's and 70's than today ( as well as less talented performers performing as well ). Examples please. Which corps from the 1960's could play what Crown did in 2013, I am very curious. Also, which corps drumline played as clean and as beefy of parts as BD did in 2009. I am also curious about which corps marched as well as the Cavaliers did in their Machine show. I know corps history quite well and have recordings back into the 1950's, so I am just curious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lincoln Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 I still remember watching "Signal 30" in driver's ed and almost vomiting right in class. It was one of those shock movies showing body parts from car crashes, trying to scare the crap out of you so you'd drive carefully. I bet kids today have been exposed to blood and gore scenes just on cable tv, not to mention the Internet. Off Topic: I found it on youtube yesterday. We were never shown anything that graphic when I took drivers ed in the late 70's. I remember watching one outdated film but it only showed the cars. You are right about kids being exposed to blood/gore now. To this day I still can't watch films like that. I once watched one of those "Final Destination" films and had to shut it off after the first scene. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cixelsyd Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 It's just an opinion but I got to thinking about members of the first DCI corps in 1972. Most were kids off of the street with no music backround or education. I don't even think most of them were in high school bands at the time and I know my local corps had very few members that could read music. Also, you may have wanted to play soprano but the quartermaster only had baritones on the shelf, so that's what you played. Many corps had feeder corps to help teach younger kids how to march and play. Today's DCI members are much more talented musicians and are member ready before they even go to the first camp. I'm not positive but I think almost everyone (if not everyone) that tries out for corps in 2014 has marched in a high school band. So my point is, as the members change, it would only make sense that the activity would change to better suit and attract band kids over to participate in corps. That sounds so perfectly simple, in theory. However, in practice, band kids are attracted to drum corps partly for aspects that are similar among the two activities, and partly because of what is different about drum corps. Therefore, what would make sense is to evaluate potential activity changes with that realization in mind. Instead, what we see more and more often is a mentality that any change which makes drum corps more like band is assumed to be an attraction to band kids. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cixelsyd Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 Examples please. Which corps from the 1960's could play what Crown did in 2013, I am very curious. Also, which corps drumline played as clean and as beefy of parts as BD did in 2009. I am also curious about which corps marched as well as the Cavaliers did in their Machine show. I know corps history quite well and have recordings back into the 1950's, so I am just curious. If you really know corps history, then you know what a disingenuous question you just asked. The examples you cite could not have been performed in the 1960s because there were rules prohibiting many of the fundamental qualities of modern show design. Most important among them was the "cadence" rule, which specified tempos for the entire moving portion of the show to be maintained between 128 and 132 beats per minute. Corps competing under that rule were subject to penalization if they deviated from that prescribed tempo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 (edited) Not all members today are music ed majors, There is a large number of music majors, but there are lots that major in many other fields. Since the discussion here is a comparison of " the crowd going to be different", we are comparing " that difference ". One of these differences is that proportionately, there are far greater marchers doing DCI Drum Corps participation that are Music Majors in school than BITD. Nobody disagrees with this assessment it seems to me. What also seems undeniable is that we generally accept the premise that, on the whole, Music Ed Majors can be expected to make far less money in this field in their chosen profession in their lifetime than many other degreed Majors from the schools, especially those degrees from the,High Tech, Business and Finance Fields, etc ( as well as in many of the Skilled Trades Professions ) As a result, we recognize ( or should ) that this future decrease in expected annual earnings does potentially pose a future financial sustainability threat to the activity when this Music Ed demographic replaces in time the current Non Music Ed demographic crowd when it comes for Corps future fund raising needs. It does bear watching as" a difference in the crowd" that the OP of this thread wanted to discuss on this thread. Edited February 20, 2014 by BRASSO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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