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Should judging be flat?


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and in many ways i do not disagree.

but when directors complain about fan reactions, and fan reactions are...well....at times polarizing....the disconnect is probably larger than it should be

One would like to believe that, with the level of intellect and talent which we in "fandom" respectfully grant to those directors, they would recognize this. However, this supposition may be merely a matter of folly being stranger than fact.

Edited by HornTeacher
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Jeff its done the same with many corps in2011 one of the most popular cadet shows people were heading out....not everyone cares about staying for the victory run..its just how it is......i totally understand what you are saying and not saying it might not have some truth to what some like or dislike but I do know even in 08 for the beloved PR show people still headed out...was there more? or less?...I dont think it proves anything either way....jmo

in 08 people headed out, but not like the mass exodus I saw in 2010. That was staggering

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It shouldn't be that radically different. Part of it is that most of the panel isn't deciding who is more entertaining and effective. It doesn't enter into their decisions, or at least it should not.

Also, there are times when even of there's something that's not entirely the way you'd do it or necessarily like it- you still have to appreciate it, understand it and roll with it.

I'd bet there are moments that some of the DCI judges are thinking of a cuppa coffee instead of what they see or hear on-field. The problem is one couldn't state that publicly and for many good reasons.

well....really...i think it all boils down to one thing.

the judges are so trained to dig for the intellectual effects, that the emotional and aesthetic get overlooked or don't get enough credit because it's not considered "deep" enough

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Was reminded by this discussion of a phrase I recently saw again:

"As scarce as the truth is, the supply has always exceeded the demand."

I was driving to the office at that exact moment when the sun rose over the horizon of the city. I switched to sunglasses. At about the same moment I realized I had my headlights on, and considered expending the energy to reach down and turn them off. Heck, I decided, no reason; I have my lights on so the approaching drivers can see me, and I have my sunglasses on so I can see them. The two are perfectly compatible and it's totally reasonable to have both. As in, "the fan's view", and "the judges view". I think we need both.

That's interesting, but I'm more interested in the discussion of the apparent emphasis on the visual, in the judge's view. Some here say there is actual sheet-emphasis, and that the judges are only following their duty. Others suggest there's interpretive room in the emphasis - or not - of one macro-caption over the other. Regardless, the answer to question of whether there is, or isn't, visual emphasis over music seems nebulous at best.

"Judging should be flat" reflects that both macro-captions are even on the sheets, so that, regardless of a judges particular favoritism of anything, the scoring sheet reflects a matrix of scoring that treats the two captions equally. It seems to me that, to do otherwise, would allow the slow annual creep towards becoming imbalanced towards one or the other. That creep happens over years as the "...you can add 10% to your visual score because you like something..." is actually interpreted to mean "...over what you've seen in previous years." Hence, year after year, even as the actual sheets don't change, a gradual creep towards one macro-caption takes place.

I suspect this is only an issue for the dinos in here who, like me, have been around for decades. Something I saw gives me the hunch that fan longevity in this activity averages about 4 years, so this creeping action may not be visible to those short-timers with a couple of years marching. So maybe it's not even an issue the vast majority of the viewing fandom.

But, unless the sheets are exactly flat, it's reasonable to presume that significant change has occurred over the years that is viewable in direct proportion to one's longevity (which, of course, is why we have the "Newbie-Dino" argument in the first place).

IMO, unless it can be shown that there is no vagary on the sheets to keep the visual/musical emphasis the same, it's possible that, because of longevity itself and the nature of the scoring sheet, we dinos see something the rookies don't even recognize. And maybe that's good in someone's view.

It appears that the rationale for any emphasis on visual is to accurately reflect today's MB, indoor, and generally younger, crowd. Maybe it's as simple as an intentional emphasis on that group because they are potential participants. Fine-tuning the judging to encourage the corps to emphasize visual over music may be justifiable to reach that audience, but is it shown with actual data that today's kids, the short-timers, actually react more favorably to visual enhancement than they do to musical enhancement?

Is that an admission of the "staleness" of playing a musical instrument in drum corps? That the only enhancement that can be made to it now are visual?

My mind works in strange ways, they tell me.

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"Judging should be flat" reflects that both macro-captions are even on the sheets, so that, regardless of a judges particular favoritism of anything, the scoring sheet reflects a matrix of scoring that treats the two captions equally. It seems to me that, to do otherwise, would allow the slow annual creep towards becoming imbalanced towards one or the other. That creep happens over years as the "...you can add 10% to your visual score because you like something..." is actually interpreted to mean "...over what you've seen in previous years." Hence, year after year, even as the actual sheets don't change, a gradual creep towards one macro-caption takes place.

I suspect this is only an issue for the dinos in here who, like me, have been around for decades. Something I saw gives me the hunch that fan longevity in this activity averages about 4 years, so this creeping action may not be visible to those short-timers with a couple of years marching. So maybe it's not even an issue the vast majority of the viewing fandom.

But, unless the sheets are exactly flat, it's reasonable to presume that significant change has occurred over the years that is viewable in direct proportion to one's longevity (which, of course, is why we have the "Newbie-Dino" argument in the first place).

IMO, unless it can be shown that there is no vagary on the sheets to keep the visual/musical emphasis the same, it's possible that, because of longevity itself and the nature of the scoring sheet, we dinos see something the rookies don't even recognize.

Maybe. If you go back far enough, "colorguard" used to be one or two weapon-carrying people alongside the American flag bearer, literally guarding the colors. Things sure have changed.

On the other hand, what was the balance back then? IIRC, Legion sheets were 60% music and 40% visual. But the most pursued junior title pre-DCI was VFW Nationals. Their sheets were split as follows:

M&M 30

drums 20

bugles 20

GE 10 (1/3 each for M&M, drums, bugles)

inspection 10

cadence 10

That yields 51.7% music and 48.3% visual.

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well....really...i think it all boils down to one thing.

the judges are so trained to dig for the intellectual effects, that the emotional and aesthetic get overlooked or don't get enough credit because it's not considered "deep" enough

VERY POSSIBLE. Heaven forbid one enjoys the performance and takes that into account.

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