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A "Tradition Corps"? What do you think?


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An alumni corps does not do what I suggested. I have a feeling that the same response would occur if a tradition corps did what 27th did (yeah, that was an alumni corps but that's not the point - the point was they did the same music and same drill which is exactly what's reflected upon in the comments). Just listen at 11:08-12:48 to get the idea.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sbTLV_kkw0E

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This has nothing to do with my love for the past, though, it is my reference point. Also, some of the anger at me is really unbelievable. Why? Because I'm your Joe Public. This is a true story - I went to Allentown last year - 1st show in 10 years. Why? It sucked 10 years ago and didn't feel like seeing more of it. To try to get me to do research and study to appreciate something is stupid. It sucked 10 years ago and it sucked last year. What sucked? Basically, all of the complaints alumni ##### about. There is a consensus. So, THAT'S REALITY. Moving forward - here was my observations of the crowd. They were bored. Out of their skulls. They just sat there and other than SCV - courtesy applause and courtesy ovations (I guess because they are kids). This isn't perception, this was reality. As I walked down the stadium ALL I HEARD was ######## (kind of like on Drum Corps Planet). And what were they ######## about? The same crap alumni is ######## about on drum corps planet and other forums. The general audience are not YOU. I am more reflective of the general audience than you BASED ON MY EXPERIENCE IN ALLENTOWN. I brought my significant - she NEVER saw a drum corps show, but, she was in HS Marching Band. (BTW, I just realized I was in Atlanta in 2010 - obviously it was so memorable I completely forgot). Here is a FACT: There is a significant portion of the DCI alumni that DESPISES what's going on. Hates it, thinks it's ridiculous, pathetic, insulting, annoying, AND NONE OF IT HAS TO DO WITH THE KIDS. I heard them. I talked with them. On big #####-fest. The kids are merely participating in what's available - that's it. There are NO ALTERNATIVES. My significant was falling asleep. BORED! Why? Well, why are we trying to try and learn some subjective 10 dimensional life lesson, esoterically presented that is so unclear, twisted, to try and get. Music is supposed to be communication. It supposed to connect. Not isolate the listener. The corps aren't accomplishing this. This is not Stravinski. The average person (my significant other) wants to be entertained. That's why we ###### away over a grand to fly, rent, lounge, eat to Allentown. DCI is not entertaining TO A LARGE MAJORITY OF PEOPLE. Throw in my reference (my history in DCI) there is nothing for me to appreciate and everything for me to criticize. What's funny to me is all of you who are defending it. What are you watching that's enjoyable? Are we watching the same thing? I have a music education degree and I taught music in the schools, have a drum corps background. I'm not connecting. The thing is, entertainment should not require someone to watch something 10 times to appreciate it. I watch Olympic Figure Skating and I can see it once and appreciate it, like it, or not. Everything wants to be a circle. I didn't come to listen to your designers view of the world. Do I really love you? Really? Blue Devils Rite of whatever? Just because it's hard doesn't make it enjoyable. It's like watching chess or someone doing a mathmatics equation. Music is completely failing. How so? Look in your communities. Music is being cancelled in schools throughout the nation. Programs are getting smaller. Fewer people are caring. Who's fault is it? The audience? No - it's the music programs. The more they keep doing what they're doing, the more it fails. Does DCI have more or less corps than the 70's and 80's? Let me simplify it - how long do you feel like listening to someone who isn't clear and/or you can't understand them? How would you like for them to tell you that YOU are the problem because you don't appreciate them? If I want to sell a widget in China, do you think I should learn to speak Chinese. If I want to sell anything to anybody - maybe I should make them want what I'm selling. I don't want what's being served. And, there are no alternatives - so I'll ##### like everyone else and maybe someone will listen. But, we're dealing with music educators, not business people so guess where it will get me. Nowhere. And guess what happens - continual death to music education because nobody is listening to the people that keep them alive. Honestly, I don't think DCI will be here in 10 years. No way. It won't be able to sustain. I wouldn't bet my house - but I'd bet yours (that's a joke).

So with all this griping you think that having drum corps return to a time where YOU liked it would fix everything. That's not selfish at all. Also, very disingenuous to suggest that only you and your opinions are part of those "that keep [the arts] alive". I teach quite a lot and I believe that i have a hand in keeping the arts alive and I disagree with everything you just wrote. So, there's that...

Edited by charlie1223
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No. I disagree that the Jersey Surf of 2012 were only a hit in the " northeast ". While naturally one would expect the reaction to the production to be better in the northeast than elsewhere( it was afterall a show tribute to an iconic former Corps from the notheast ), it was also a hit that year wherever it was performed.

Didn't they only perform shows on the East Coast though? I thought their tour only brought them as far west as the Mississippi?

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My own observation was it was more of an east coast thing, actually north east, but it worked for sure gaining them attention, which many if not all try to do. Like anything there's always mixed reactions to most all shows, even this one. I heard great things as to fun, audience, easy to read, etc etc but also heard the opposite, ( no verbs needed ) x Bridgemen were also honored, and some not so much..all in perspective I guess.

No doubt though, they did create a stir and thats the 1st thing in performing, ......getting talked about.........so was it a success? baring scores or placements................for them it was for sure.imo....probably the 1st time being talked about so much

I know you were not in San Antonio, then.

Considering that the Surf tour was mostly an east coast thing, actually northeast, there were hardly any opportunities to contest your theory. But in San Antonio, they roused the crowd in a manner that defies comparison.

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This has nothing to do with my love for the past, though, it is my reference point. Also, some of the anger at me is really unbelievable. Why? Because I'm your Joe Public. This is a true story - I went to Allentown last year - 1st show in 10 years. Why? It sucked 10 years ago and didn't feel like seeing more of it. To try to get me to do research and study to appreciate something is stupid. It sucked 10 years ago and it sucked last year. What sucked? Basically, all of the complaints alumni ##### about. There is a consensus. So, THAT'S REALITY. Moving forward - here was my observations of the crowd. They were bored. Out of their skulls. They just sat there and other than SCV - courtesy applause and courtesy ovations (I guess because they are kids). This isn't perception, this was reality. As I walked down the stadium ALL I HEARD was #####ing (kind of like on Drum Corps Planet). And what were they #####ing about? The same crap alumni is #####ing about on drum corps planet and other forums. The general audience are not YOU. I am more reflective of the general audience than you BASED ON MY EXPERIENCE IN ALLENTOWN. I brought my significant - she NEVER saw a drum corps show, but, she was in HS Marching Band. (BTW, I just realized I was in Atlanta in 2010 - obviously it was so memorable I completely forgot). Here is a FACT: There is a significant portion of the DCI alumni that DESPISES what's going on. Hates it, thinks it's ridiculous, pathetic, insulting, annoying, AND NONE OF IT HAS TO DO WITH THE KIDS. I heard them. I talked with them. On big #####-fest. The kids are merely participating in what's available - that's it. There are NO ALTERNATIVES. My significant was falling asleep. BORED! Why? Well, why are we trying to try and learn some subjective 10 dimensional life lesson, esoterically presented that is so unclear, twisted, to try and get. Music is supposed to be communication. It supposed to connect. Not isolate the listener. The corps aren't accomplishing this. This is not Stravinski. The average person (my significant other) wants to be entertained. That's why we ###### away over a grand to fly, rent, lounge, eat to Allentown. DCI is not entertaining TO A LARGE MAJORITY OF PEOPLE. Throw in my reference (my history in DCI) there is nothing for me to appreciate and everything for me to criticize. What's funny to me is all of you who are defending it. What are you watching that's enjoyable? Are we watching the same thing? I have a music education degree and I taught music in the schools, have a drum corps background. I'm not connecting. The thing is, entertainment should not require someone to watch something 10 times to appreciate it. I watch Olympic Figure Skating and I can see it once and appreciate it, like it, or not. Everything wants to be a circle. I didn't come to listen to your designers view of the world. Do I really love you? Really? Blue Devils Rite of whatever? Just because it's hard doesn't make it enjoyable. It's like watching chess or someone doing a mathmatics equation. Music is completely failing. How so? Look in your communities. Music is being cancelled in schools throughout the nation. Programs are getting smaller. Fewer people are caring. Who's fault is it? The audience? No - it's the music programs. The more they keep doing what they're doing, the more it fails. Does DCI have more or less corps than the 70's and 80's? Let me simplify it - how long do you feel like listening to someone who isn't clear and/or you can't understand them? How would you like for them to tell you that YOU are the problem because you don't appreciate them? If I want to sell a widget in China, do you think I should learn to speak Chinese. If I want to sell anything to anybody - maybe I should make them want what I'm selling. I don't want what's being served. And, there are no alternatives - so I'll ##### like everyone else and maybe someone will listen. But, we're dealing with music educators, not business people so guess where it will get me. Nowhere. And guess what happens - continual death to music education because nobody is listening to the people that keep them alive. Honestly, I don't think DCI will be here in 10 years. No way. It won't be able to sustain. I wouldn't bet my house - but I'd bet yours (that's a joke).

Before this post gets torn to shreds, there is a point in here somewhere. It is something like what I was saying recently about how once upon a time, judges and fans were in pretty close agreement on what was effective/entertaining, but they have since diverged.

As an example - we had theme shows back in the day. Over 50 years ago, people thought it clever to select 16 songs with the word "Love" in the title and form a heart shape in the drill. Apparently, that is all it takes to fulfill the intellectual part of the effect triad for some judging intellects. A few years later, though, top corps were scoring the most points by employing clever music arranging (voicing, chord structure, rhythm, dynamics, layering) to satisfy the intellectual aspect, if not all three parts of the triad. Brass alone provided a full palette of colors, when utilized by the arrangers of those several subsequent decades. Similar thinking among designers in the percussion and visual areas generated comparatively innovative and engaging ideas there too.

Now, we are back to getting our intellectual engagement from finding which song in the old/new/borrowed/blue theme has the word "Blue" in the title. When designers want a sonic color, they go get a pre-recorded version of it and have it played over the speakers. And when a show theme (which at some point became mandatory) is not sufficiently clear from the use of music and motion, we have it explained to us in so many words over those same speakers. Is that really intellectual, or the opposite?

Obscurity becomes effect on the score sheets. Designers win contests by convincing judges that confusion was the intended response to their designs. Replicating shows from 30 years ago is not the answer, but regaining the clarity of 30 years ago might be. Thematic symbolism is perfectly fine when it is clear as black and white (there is a punch line in there regarding 1987 Sky Ryders).

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Some of you did not read carefully. He said NOT Competitive. Just a touring exhibition. All Age I would say so they could/would have the talent to do the Exact shows. Each year they would tour. Do premier events and Finals and some other shows, all as exhibition, and do exact moves, drill, arrangements, done to the minute detail.

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This has nothing to do with my love for the past, though, it is my reference point. Also, some of the anger at me is really unbelievable. Why? Because I'm your Joe Public. This is a true story - I went to Allentown last year - 1st show in 10 years. Why? It sucked 10 years ago and didn't feel like seeing more of it. To try to get me to do research and study to appreciate something is stupid. It sucked 10 years ago and it sucked last year. What sucked? Basically, all of the complaints alumni ##### about. There is a consensus. So, THAT'S REALITY. Moving forward - here was my observations of the crowd. They were bored. Out of their skulls. They just sat there and other than SCV - courtesy applause and courtesy ovations (I guess because they are kids). This isn't perception, this was reality. As I walked down the stadium ALL I HEARD was #####ing (kind of like on Drum Corps Planet). And what were they #####ing about? The same crap alumni is #####ing about on drum corps planet and other forums. The general audience are not YOU. I am more reflective of the general audience than you BASED ON MY EXPERIENCE IN ALLENTOWN. I brought my significant - she NEVER saw a drum corps show, but, she was in HS Marching Band. (BTW, I just realized I was in Atlanta in 2010 - obviously it was so memorable I completely forgot). Here is a FACT: There is a significant portion of the DCI alumni that DESPISES what's going on. Hates it, thinks it's ridiculous, pathetic, insulting, annoying, AND NONE OF IT HAS TO DO WITH THE KIDS. I heard them. I talked with them. On big #####-fest. The kids are merely participating in what's available - that's it. There are NO ALTERNATIVES. My significant was falling asleep. BORED! Why? Well, why are we trying to try and learn some subjective 10 dimensional life lesson, esoterically presented that is so unclear, twisted, to try and get. Music is supposed to be communication. It supposed to connect. Not isolate the listener. The corps aren't accomplishing this. This is not Stravinski. The average person (my significant other) wants to be entertained. That's why we ###### away over a grand to fly, rent, lounge, eat to Allentown. DCI is not entertaining TO A LARGE MAJORITY OF PEOPLE. Throw in my reference (my history in DCI) there is nothing for me to appreciate and everything for me to criticize. What's funny to me is all of you who are defending it. What are you watching that's enjoyable? Are we watching the same thing? I have a music education degree and I taught music in the schools, have a drum corps background. I'm not connecting. The thing is, entertainment should not require someone to watch something 10 times to appreciate it. I watch Olympic Figure Skating and I can see it once and appreciate it, like it, or not. Everything wants to be a circle. I didn't come to listen to your designers view of the world. Do I really love you? Really? Blue Devils Rite of whatever? Just because it's hard doesn't make it enjoyable. It's like watching chess or someone doing a mathmatics equation. Music is completely failing. How so? Look in your communities. Music is being cancelled in schools throughout the nation. Programs are getting smaller. Fewer people are caring. Who's fault is it? The audience? No - it's the music programs. The more they keep doing what they're doing, the more it fails. Does DCI have more or less corps than the 70's and 80's? Let me simplify it - how long do you feel like listening to someone who isn't clear and/or you can't understand them? How would you like for them to tell you that YOU are the problem because you don't appreciate them? If I want to sell a widget in China, do you think I should learn to speak Chinese. If I want to sell anything to anybody - maybe I should make them want what I'm selling. I don't want what's being served. And, there are no alternatives - so I'll ##### like everyone else and maybe someone will listen. But, we're dealing with music educators, not business people so guess where it will get me. Nowhere. And guess what happens - continual death to music education because nobody is listening to the people that keep them alive. Honestly, I don't think DCI will be here in 10 years. No way. It won't be able to sustain. I wouldn't bet my house - but I'd bet yours (that's a joke).

This seems to be a lot of "blah blah blah" mixed in between all the hashtags.

You do not find modern drum corps enjoyable. We get it.

Your significant other is lulled to sleep by them. We get it.

Your experience in Allentown is obviously indicative of everyone's reality. We get it.

You've seen the future of drum corps and it is non-existent. We get it.

You ache for days past where color guards literally just carried the colors and maybe did some drop spins while high-stepping....

... WE GET IT.

What I (and I'm guessing a few others on here) DON'T get, is your need to constantly share your misery on these forums. It is most certainly you're right and you're free to do so, but I honestly can't grasp what you're hoping to accomplish by creating topic after topic that all essentially boil down to your hatred of DCI.

But to answer your original post, no. I wouldn't go see your "tradition" corps. Stuff from the 70's and 80's kinda bores me. I respect and admire what they did. Musically, there is some good stuff happening. Visually, not so much. I prefer the whole package that today's corps offer.

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Didn't they only perform shows on the East Coast though? I thought their tour only brought them as far west as the Mississippi?

Wow. The east coast is a lot bigger than I thought.

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