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A "Tradition Corps"? What do you think?


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"Blank slate"... I'm sure. :lle:

And how insightful of you to know that I wasn't paying attention.... Thankfully, I can look at it and analyze it all I want on the Blu-ray. Yep, still cheering and standing! No sleeping...

You're seeing what you want to see and pawning it off as "reality". News flash. DCP isn't reality. Facebook isn't reality. The internet isn't reality. It's all made up of people who sign-up, log-in, post and "like" stuff for their own reasons. Reality is people at the shows. And those people, for the majority, enjoy what they're seeing. What bothers you is that you're not in that group anymore. And that's fine. I may not be in the group ten or twenty years down the road either. But other people will be.

That's how niche activities like drum corps survive. They change. The adapt. You obviously don't like it, as evidenced by your 200+ posts devoted to sharing your disdain. But please... continue to enthrall us with your acumen.

Yeah, we all know it's creative editing to show people NOT clapping. Yeah, that's the shot they'll show. I'm not seeing what I want to see. I showed up blank slate. Look, I paid over a grand to get there. I showed up looking to receive "default". I didn't get default. I got the blue screen of death (the twirling circle for all you Mac users). Facebook isn't reality? WTF? You are automatically disqualified. I'm pretty sure Facebook is reality. The millions of people and billions of dollars and the occassional murder, affairs, etc; pretty much says reality. Ask those people if Facebook is reality. I challenge ANY ONE OF YOU to stand in front of a show this year (don't pick Crown), and hit the video record key and face the audience. If you don't, I will. Want reality. Everything I'm saying will show up. As a matter of fact, I'm going to do this and talk to people in the stands and simply say, "what did you think" and see what comes out of their mouths. Young, old, people that look old or act like kids - a sample. I will bet your house that it will roll aligned with what I'm telling you. But, you need to use a little psychology too by the way. People on video will not say what they really think all of the time (if it's negative because that's human nature), and if you spend a lot of money or ANY INVESTMENT on something - you justify it because you don't want to be the loser wasting money. That's psychological realities of life, so there needs to be a buffer.). BTW, there's a difference between survive and thrive. We applaud survival. Really? Hey, he pays his bills. Comparing that to someone who doesn't, they're a winner. Compare them to Bill Gates, yeah, pretty much a loser. Even in your own world you call survival success. Again, it's not about me and what I don't like. Do you really need me to start sharing links. Take off your blinders. But, I'll gladly get in row 1, turn around and video the whole performance. Then you can analyze it. (Watching the blu-ray). That's hilarious.

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Surf has been mentioned in this thread as an organization and with a comment that their fan base is only in the Northeast. Since I am from the Greater Boston area and I love Surf, I am one of the Northeast fans, but I think Surf has to be given its due. Surf has only been in WC since 2009 and they are only beginning to extend their touring. DVD's and recording are not kind to Surf, but seeing them live is an experience. So when different parts of the country get to see and know Surf, they'll love them.

Now as far as "Tradition" is concerned, off the field can be as important as instruments and styles of shows. I'm not sure if I love Surf because of their shows, which I've always enjoyed, even prior to Bridgemania and Soul Surfing, or the organization itself. Bob Jacobs and crew gathers what may be the most eclectic group of individuals and creates a family. Surf pays close attention to the drum corps experience and the importance of mentoring the younger members. Other corps also maintain strong drum corps tradition off the field, and in my opinion BAC does a great job at this but so too do the Cadets. I went to East Rutherford a few years back with a huge rain delay. Cadets alums were gathering, sharing stories, asking random strangers about their favorite shows and connecting the random stranger with members who marched that year. Maybe free flowing beer helped loosen tongues, but I got a clear sense of a connectedness and years of tradition. And while I wondered if I'd need strong medication and plenty of alcohol to get over seeing Facebook photos of trombones at a Madison Scout camp last weekend, Madison maintains a sense of tradition.

The drum corps fan in me would love to see a real traditional show, but as someone who has worked with young people as a teacher, youth minister, and priest for nearly thirty years, I love knowing that the great lessons learned in drum corps and that part of the tradition is still alive.

Also, regarding people not clapping at shows, attend shows from Pennsylvania eastward. We always clap, have great fun, know our stuff, have mixed audiences of young and old, moan and groan about the old days while being amazed at what happens on the field. Allentown, Bristol, RI, Jackson, NJ, Chester, PA and the BAC shows and Beanpot, all great shows and great times.We may be stuffed shirts one minute and rowdy and loud the next, but we remember it's fun.

Edited by Tim K
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Yeah, we all know it's creative editing to show people NOT clapping. Yeah, that's the shot they'll show. I'm not seeing what I want to see. I showed up blank slate. Look, I paid over a grand to get there. I showed up looking to receive "default". I didn't get default. I got the blue screen of death (the twirling circle for all you Mac users). Facebook isn't reality? WTF? You are automatically disqualified. I'm pretty sure Facebook is reality. The millions of people and billions of dollars and the occassional murder, affairs, etc; pretty much says reality. Ask those people if Facebook is reality. I challenge ANY ONE OF YOU to stand in front of a show this year (don't pick Crown), and hit the video record key and face the audience. If you don't, I will. Want reality. Everything I'm saying will show up. As a matter of fact, I'm going to do this and talk to people in the stands and simply say, "what did you think" and see what comes out of their mouths. Young, old, people that look old or act like kids - a sample. I will bet your house that it will roll aligned with what I'm telling you. But, you need to use a little psychology too by the way. People on video will not say what they really think all of the time (if it's negative because that's human nature), and if you spend a lot of money or ANY INVESTMENT on something - you justify it because you don't want to be the loser wasting money. That's psychological realities of life, so there needs to be a buffer.). BTW, there's a difference between survive and thrive. We applaud survival. Really? Hey, he pays his bills. Comparing that to someone who doesn't, they're a winner. Compare them to Bill Gates, yeah, pretty much a loser. Even in your own world you call survival success. Again, it's not about me and what I don't like. Do you really need me to start sharing links. Take off your blinders. But, I'll gladly get in row 1, turn around and video the whole performance. Then you can analyze it. (Watching the blu-ray). That's hilarious.

Please do.

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Since alumniof's recent experience came from Allentown, I will unequivocally state, compared to recent shows there, the Allentown shows from the late 70s & early 80s had bigger crowds, more raucous crowds, and many times more spontaneous standing Os throughout the evening. That's a fact. Now, what to make of it all?

There are plenty of 'WASs and WEREs' in every activity, of course.

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Surf has been mentioned in this thread as an organization and with a comment that their fan base is only in the Northeast. Since I am from the Greater Boston area and I love Surf, I am one of the Northeast fans, but I think Surf has to be given its due. Surf has only been in WC since 2009 and they are only beginning to extend their touring. DVD's and recording are not kind to Surf, but seeing them live is an experience. So when different parts of the country get to see and know Surf, they'll love them.

Now as far as "Tradition" is concerned, off the field can be as important as instruments and styles of shows. I'm not sure if I love Surf because of their shows, which I've always enjoyed, even prior to Bridgemania and Soul Surfing, or the organization itself. Bob Jacobs and crew gathers what may be the most eclectic group of individuals and creates a family. Surf pays close attention to the drum corps experience and the importance of mentoring the younger members. Other corps also maintain strong drum corps tradition off the field, and in my opinion BAC does a great job at this but so too do the Cadets. I went to East Rutherford a few years back with a huge rain delay. Cadets alums were gathering, sharing stories, asking random strangers about their favorite shows and connecting the random stranger with members who marched that year. Maybe free flowing beer helped loosen tongues, but I got a clear sense of a connectedness and years of tradition. And while I wondered if I'd need strong medication and plenty of alcohol to get over seeing Facebook photos of trombones at a Madison Scout camp last weekend, Madison maintains a sense of tradition.

The drum corps fan in me would love to see a real traditional show, but as someone who has worked with young people as a teacher, youth minister, and priest for nearly thirty years, I love knowing that the great lessons learned in drum corps and that part of the tradition is still alive.

Also, regarding people not clapping at shows, attend shows from Pennsylvania eastward. We always clap, have great fun, know our stuff, have mixed audiences of young and old, moan and groan about the old days while being amazed at what happens on the field. Allentown, Bristol, RI, Jackson, NJ, Chester, PA and the BAC shows and Beanpot, all great shows and great times.We may be stuffed shirts one minute and rowdy and loud the next, but we remember it's fun.

I think Allentown qualifies for Pennsylvania?

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Please do.

Here is a clip found on a quick youtube search of Blue Devils. Thankfully, there is a "hit". Now, keep in mind - this is someone's cell phone video recording. Like your cell phone it picks up everything. Do you HEAR OR SEE ANYTHING dribbling into the phone. That would be a no. You just see the staff leaning against the fence. Mind you, there are well over 1,000 people watching this. I hear ants farting I think. There's your quick video of reality.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AlGQZxuourk

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BTW, I posted this on another site and pretty much getting near 100% support of the idea. So, YOUR REALITY is perhaps not reality at all, but your closed little group reality - but like DCI - this closed lil group reality is NOT reflective of the public (defined as general audience). And the site the idea is on (Facebook) is where all the love is. I mean, let's look at Facebook. Why is it a hit with the adults and not so much the kids? Memories you bone heads. The kids have no memories of value because they are growing into their memories. They're all about the here and now (twitter, instagram) and the short and to the point (pintrest). YOU DO REALIZE as much as you attack me YOU ARE NOT THE ONES GETTING IT!? Intellectualize your way to reality. BTW, you know the definition of an intellectual? Someone educated beyond their ability to understand common sense. That's YOU! THE REALITY is half the butts in the stands are ALUMNI/MUSIC EDUCATORS OLDER THAN THE KIDS BY MORE THAN 10 YEARS. NOBODY, is acknowledging them. So, they do what all older people do - whine, ##### and complain and then pay money to see it so they can whine, ##### and complain some more. THE REALITY is 1/2 the butts in the seat thinks the product sucks, the intention sucks, the programming sucks, the mics suck, the transformation and change sucks, the direction sucks and the reasons are what everybody complains about - electronics, voice overs, yoga and ballet in shakos, Bb (they call it flat for a reason and I'm positive it mean it sucks - that's a joke), visual over music emphasis, broken visuals, no uniformity and you need to attend MIT's version of music education to understand or care or appreciate why eveything wants to be a circle (which is untrue). Don't you blind DCP types see that this is nothing more than kids being used so that A drill designer can solve his groin itch for doing something that's never been done before. People will watch Miley Cyrus not because she's musically talented. They watch her because she goes to where people are at in their life, and drags them willingly (this is planned) to her message and they connect to it. Is drum corps doing that? Hell to the no. Look at Super Bowl commercials. Millions are spent on connecting emotions so strong to the wing eating fat ### on the couch that they'll buy said product long after the Super Bowl is over. Drum Corps educators are NOT salesman or marketing people. CLEARLY!!! Some of you have such intellectual envy that you live that out and rewired your brain to some how believe that the crap on the field is of any value. Do you remember the Steve Martin bit where he uses all 10 fingers, toes and nose to play one note, then he shows the alternative fingering which is one finger. You all (filter yourself, you know who I'm talking about), would play the note the hard way and legitimize it. You're the type that uses 6th position instead of the rotor and give me a lecture why, you're the type that keeps the right hand down on an a on clarinet, you're the type that will always long title everything in a program to try and give more importance to something. You realize the general public thinks you're band geeks for a reason. And it's earned and deserved. I need some coffee. (Let me clear something up - my "hate" is really good ole NY arguing in the garage or over the Italian dining room. My offensiveness is with love - but you can't see it in my posts - and you're not suppsed to). One last point - the Hitler videos. Now, those are funny. They're creative. I get it. Why can't drum corps DO WHAT MUSIC IS SUPPOSED TO DO - connect. They're FAILING music, and education, and this is why MUSIC IS BEING LOST IN THE SCHOOLS. It's suicide. It is NOT the legislature. Do you know why band kids parents drop their kids off at a concert and don't come back - because they are so unentertained they don't want to even watch it or care to. Do you know why music evaluation festivals have empty auditoriums? Nobody cares. Keep doing what you're doing and attacking the public for common sense and then look at each other and say "gee, what happened". LISTEN? Isn't that part of music and education - you have 2 ears! LISTEN and pay attention to my content. It's valid. I represent what I hear and see and because I agree with it, I attach to it - but I'm simply saying the same thing others are saying. Bone heads. (see, a music insult).

The only hard fact reality that matters is that attendance for all DCI's major shows and events has been increasing. So it's hard to imagine that "1/2" of the people hate the activity as much as you yet still are showing up in increasing numbers. Maybe you are the one in your own little world of doubt and hate.

Drum Corps is not responsible for budget cuts of the music programs.

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