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A "Tradition Corps"? What do you think?


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I know parents that go to Finals to cheer on their kids ( some regrettably take no interest at all, and don't go to any shows.. they just write the checks ), They are there looking for their kids game. They have little to no interest on the shows, nor on anything else for that matter. Once their kid is done doing DCI Drum Corps they discard DCI Drum Corps like a used bingo card. This was as true in 1973 as it was in 2013, and will no doubt be true in 2014 as well.

Yup...I agree. Happens in corps and band. At least they went to a show or two. I also know of parents with the band I teach who NEVER went to a show in all four years their kid marched. Pretty sad, IMO.

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He's the one name calling and we're the antagonists? ... Okay.

Maybe he should start another thread with his voice of reason to further expound on just how right he is. He is in the sound business after all.

If he fell in the forest, and there was nobody there to help him back up...would the world have one less sound engineer?

I would venture that would be the case, since the proverbial tree (which nobody is there to hear, either) fell on him 5 minutes later.

Edited by HornTeacher
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For some reason, my computer is not allowing me to respond directly to post. I hit post and multi post but nothing is happening. I'm sure it's my doing. I use my computer for both work and personal use and we recently upgraded the anti-virus protection, so I'm sure it's probably being blocked. However, I would like to reply to a few posts, the first being that of "exitmusic." I think it's a huge overgeneralization to say that kids today would find shows of yesteryear too boring to march to, and that their high school programs do a better job. It wasn't as easy as it looked back in the day and some of the classic shows will stand the test of time. Also, boring is a subjective term at best. Yes in forty years of following drum corps I have seen snooze-fest performances, but not a snooze-fest competition, and when I yawn, I'm usually in the minority. Also, when it comes to high school programs, yes they have improved, but the very best and even very good are only a fraction of the programs nationwide and school music programs are often just a budget cut away from extinction and in most cases, if the school slices the budget, the public does not raise the funds. Yes it happens, but it's rare. I would venture that most music programs, even the best, have to work twice as hard for half the respect of other school programs.

Another poster mentioned that high school programs have replaced drum corps. Maybe, but I'm not sure there is a correlation between improved music programs and fewer drum corps. The Northeast, especially Massachusetts and New Jersey, along with pockets in the Midwest, were the hotbed of drum cops activity but the best high school bands seem to hail from areas of the country that did not have drum corps and interestingly, the kids in many of the best programs fill the spots in most drum corps that are again, housed in areas that in general do not have the best bands. Personally I believe the variety of activities open to kids today accounts for the demise of many drum corps. Growing up there were limited sports activities for boys: football, basketball, hockey, and baseball. Girls could be cheerleaders, take dance, or play softball, maybe. Yes there was scouting, but most of the guys in my Boy Scout troop were also athletes. Today my hometown supports drama programs, a variety of sports including soccer, rugby, and lacrosse, two schools for the arts with waiting lists. The most popular non athletic activity in the town is hip-hop dancing. Times have changed not just in regard to shows and styles but also what is offered to kids.

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Yup...I agree. Happens in corps and band. At least they went to a show or two. I also know of parents with the band I teach who NEVER went to a show in all four years their kid marched. Pretty sad, IMO.

Yup..'saw it too.. you're right, pretty sad.

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For some reason I am not able to quote other comments, so to Perc2100, I know the current rules allow for corps to do that style of show, and that most corps choose not to. I am completely fine with this. And I am a fan of 95% of the shows that are on the field today. Some corps may do shows that I don't care for, and a few will have small things about the show that I don't like.

But the thing I liked about the OP idea, is the fact, it would not take away from what any corps is doing today. It would just give people one more option of another corps to like. Some people would love them, some people would not like them, just like any other corps. But what is wrong with one corps giving the people that like that type of show, one more option?

Who knows if the corps would be successful. There are so many types of success in my opinion in the drum corps world. Some people consider BD the most successful corps since they have won more than anyone else. Some consider SCV one of the most successful because they are the only corps to ever make finals every year since 72. Some people consider Pioneer successful, because even though they place near the bottom every year, they put decent shows on the field, teach their members important skills, and still field a corps when almost every corps around their level in the 90s are now inactive.

I like the fact that a new corps could exist, play old style shows, and bring back some memories as well. Do I want to see every corps do a show like that? No. Some people don't like the new age of drum corps. Some people don't like the old style of drum corps. I personally like both styles. I don't foresee a corps like that starting up in the near future, with the economy and everything the way it is. But if they did, I would support them just like I do every other corps that steps onto the field.

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I bet a lot of them had no idea what a drum corps actually was, or would care to know. I know that's how it was at the Bingo I worked at in the late 70's (and bought my Bingo-playing Mother-in-law often). They were just Bingo players looking for a game! :tounge2:

Probably true in areas like NNJ & Cali, but in Butler PA some of the Bingo ladies were grandmas or neighbors of kids marching & some came to the AIO. Personally i always liked working bingo and appreciated their support.

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Only problem. Why is the word "band" such a lame word! The connotations are awful in today's society unfortunately. The "b" is bumbling and round sound certainly not as cutting authoritative as the c in corps... and that "a" vowel sound... Geez it really gets up there in the nasal passage when you say it....

Id rather keep the word corps just for posterity's sake!

Well maybe thats a project for DCI's bands-to make "band" cool. I think the general public thinks that the show bands like in "drum line" is more admirable than being in a DCI band or drum & bugle corps.

I wonder what name DCI will take?

Marching Band All Stars Summer Sport

Or something like that?

As an afterthought, i think when DCI completes its transition with a name change a lot of the tension with drum & bugle corps traditionalists will cease. I think that crowd-me included will look for other alternatives with bugles. That may help us gain a greater degree of interest in the late DCI's bands (and it may not).

Edited by pearlsnaredrummer77
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However, I would like to reply to a few posts, the first being that of "exitmusic." I think it's a huge overgeneralization to say that kids today would find shows of yesteryear too boring to march to, and that their high school programs do a better job. It wasn't as easy as it looked back in the day and some of the classic shows will stand the test of time.

you will not find 128 kids willing to pay to spend their summers marching symmetrical drill forms at 12:5 steps and playing Ice Castles or Danny Boy. you just won't.

besides, even the most well performed shows from the 70s and early 80s have glaring performance issues. horn angles? ever check those out? timing of the feet, ensemble timing... it goes on and on. kids today (even 16 year olds) are so fundamentally good at marching band that they'd have the show maxed out in 5 days and would spend the other 11 weeks on whatsapp telling their band friends how bored they were.

think about this... the high school bands in texas are only allowed to rehearse for 8 hours per WEEK. that means that during a 12-week fall season, they rehearse the equivalent of about 10-12 full drum corps days. these bands achieve things that even lower scoring corps can't even dream of. it's a different universe.

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you will not find 128 kids willing to pay to spend their summers marching symmetrical drill forms at 12:5 steps and playing Ice Castles or Danny Boy. you just won't.besides, even the most well performed shows from the 70s and early 80s have glaring performance issues. horn angles? ever check those out? timing of the feet, ensemble timing... it goes on and on. kids today (even 16 year olds) are so fundamentally good at marching band that they'd have the show maxed out in 5 days and would spend the other 11 weeks on whatsapp telling their band friends how bored they were.think about this... the high school bands in texas are only allowed to rehearse for 8 hours per WEEK. that means that during a 12-week fall season, they rehearse the equivalent of about 10-12 full drum corps days. these bands achieve things that even lower scoring corps can't even dream of. it's a different universe.

I think that most drum and bugle corps fans are cool with about 28 bugles & 40 is real nice-52 is great. Remember the bugles are louder than their bflat cousins.

All of the performance issues you mention-thats where drum and bugle corps was then. We were learning through trial and error the current performance standards.

Let me tell you 98% of bands back in the 70s were high stepping show bands with drum lines that didnt tune their drums. I remember regularly seeing snare lines (and i use that term loosely) with people playing snare with traditional and matched grip in the same section. They had 'pompom' girls, few did band festivals much less compete. They almost universally sounded horrendous. Im not talking subtle problems either. Many bands had multiple hand held glocks clanging away. Listening to bands in those days was more of a matter of 'when will it end!'

When i got to College band, i was horrified to find 8 bass drummers playing quarter notes on every song on unmuffled or tuned bass drums. The entire band including drumline used lyres-i kid you not. This was 1984-check out what any drum and bugle corps was doing-i am sure no corps (and there was about 250 then) was doing anything like that.

Marching style for most bands of the 70s & early 80 s didnt exist until gradually bands began to adopt 'corps style' and that often was just an excuse to walk-maybe in step-maybe not. A good marcher for a band in those days was someone who stayed in step 80% of the time.

Another staple of bands of that era was the lyre as it was perfectly acceptable to read the music on the field. Band drills commonly featured 'scramble' to get to the next set. You know what cleaned up that mess? Drum and Bugle corps folks-the ones with the bad horn angles. If it werent for drum and bugle corps most bands would still be wearing buffalo hats and spats. :)

I think we need to keep things in some sort of historical perspective when making value laden comparisons of the past/ present without an understanding of context.

I dont think that you will see a drum and bugle corps with 80 brass performing in the manner of current DCI band. I do think its possible to see a revival of smaller, lower cost & overhead drum and bugle corps. This past summe my old corps was back on the street with about 20 bugles, 4 snares and those folks were mainly HS age. So yeah, it's possible. It might not be what you like, but i dont like DCI's current band approach. So i guess we are all happy. :)

Edited by pearlsnaredrummer77
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For some reason, my computer is not allowing me to respond directly to post. I hit post and multi post but nothing is happening. I'm sure it's my doing. I use my computer for both work and personal use and we recently upgraded the anti-virus protection, so I'm sure it's probably being blocked. However, I would like to reply to a few posts, the first being that of "exitmusic." I think it's a huge overgeneralization to say that kids today would find shows of yesteryear too boring to march to, and that their high school programs do a better job. It wasn't as easy as it looked back in the day and some of the classic shows will stand the test of time.

Another poster mentioned that high school programs have replaced drum corps. Maybe, but I'm not sure there is a correlation between improved music programs and fewer drum corps. The Northeast, especially Massachusetts and New Jersey, along with pockets in the Midwest, were the hotbed of drum cops activity but the best high school bands seem to hail from areas of the country that did not have drum corps and interestingly, the kids in many of the best programs fill the spots in most drum corps that are again, housed in areas that in general do not have the best bands. Personally I believe the variety of activities open to kids today accounts for the demise of many drum corps. Growing up there were limited sports activities for boys: football, basketball, hockey, and baseball. Girls could be cheerleaders, take dance, or play softball, maybe. Yes there was scouting, but most of the guys in my Boy Scout troop were also athletes. Today my hometown supports drama programs, a variety of sports including soccer, rugby, and lacrosse, two schools for the arts with waiting lists. The most popular non athletic activity in the town is hip-hop dancing. Times have changed not just in regard to shows and styles but also what is offered to kids.

The OP was talking about recreating long-past shows, drill and all. Leaving the BOA-caliber bands out, even a decent-level competitive band in local/regional circuits (e.g. USBands, TOB, NESBA, etc) is marching a far more complex show, musically and visually, than drum corps shows of 40 years ago.

The replacement concept is that nationally where there were hundreds of corps competing nationwide, ranging from the lowest level to the top level few corps, today there are thousands of competitive MB across the country, from the lowest level on up, with those few top level corps remainiing at the top of the pyramid.

I don't think there is a correlation between improved music programs in general and fewer drum corps. IMO there is a correlation between fewer drum corps and the existence of more competitive marching bands around the country.

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