Jump to content

A "Tradition Corps"? What do you think?


Recommended Posts

I think that most drum and bugle corps fans are cool with about 28 bugles & 40 is real nice-52 is great. Remember the bugles are louder than their bflat cousins.

All of the performance issues you mention-thats where drum and bugle corps was then. We were learning through trial and error the current performance standards.

Let me tell you 98% of bands back in the 70s were high stepping show bands with drum lines that didnt tune their drums. I remember regularly seeing snare lines (and i use that term loosely) with people playing snare with traditional and matched grip in the same section. They had 'pompom' girls, few did band festivals much less compete. They almost universally sounded horrendous. Im not talking subtle problems either. Many bands had multiple hand held glocks clanging away. Listening to bands in those days was more of a matter of 'when will it end!'

When i got to College band, i was horrified to find 8 bass drummers playing quarter notes on every song on unmuffled or tuned bass drums. The entire band including drumline used lyres-i kid you not. This was 1984-check out what any drum and bugle corps was doing-i am sure no corps (and there was about 250 then) was doing anything like that.

Marching style for most bands of the 70s & early 80 s didnt exist until gradually bands began to adopt 'corps style' and that often was just an excuse to walk-maybe in step-maybe not. A good marcher for a band in those days was someone who stayed in step 80% of the time.

Another staple of bands of that era was the lyre as it was perfectly acceptable to read the music on the field. Band drills commonly featured 'scramble' to get to the next set. You know what cleaned up that mess? Drum and Bugle corps folks-the ones with the bad horn angles. If it werent for drum and bugle corps most bands would still be wearing buffalo hats and spats. :)

I think we need to keep things in some sort of historical perspective when making value laden comparisons of the past/ present without an understanding of context.

I dont think that you will see a drum and bugle corps with 80 brass performing in the manner of current DCI band. I do think its possible to see a revival of smaller, lower cost & overhead drum and bugle corps. This past summe my old corps was back on the street with about 20 bugles, 4 snares and those folks were mainly HS age. So yeah, it's possible. It might not be what you like, but i dont like DCI's current band approach. So i guess we are all happy. :)

Why do you think "most" fans are cool with as few as 28 horns? I doubt it. There are constant complaints about low attendance at Open class shows posted on DCP.

You describe one type of MB of the past, but that is besides the point. The OP is looking to have kids of today's improved bands march and play old shows of 30-40 years ago, note-for-note and step-for-step.

In my area, the "corps style" MB movement started in the early 70's and accelerated through the 80's, with competitive circuits like TOB, EMBA, NESBA, Cavalcade, NYSFBC providing opportunities for bands. There was a wide range of skills, to be sure, but it was not at all as you describe universally.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Only problem. Why is the word "band" such a lame word! The connotations are awful in today's society unfortunately. The "b" is bumbling and round sound certainly not as cutting authoritative as the c in corps... and that "a" vowel sound... Geez it really gets up there in the nasal passage when you say it....

Id rather keep the word corps just for posterity's sake!

To be blunt...

Because drum corps has always been a elitist activity. It's highly competitive, from walking in the door to audition to competing on the field at Finals. It's an activity where we're always ranking/rating EVERYTHING: there are some corps discussion about brown vs orange trays, or red vs green koolaid! I've read member blogs where even shower water pressure is rated on a site-by-site basis! Fans argue about which era is "better," or more true or whatnot. It is only natural that elitism creeps into outside world a bit, and I think marching members have an attitude of, "I had to audition to become a member, our corps works WAY harder on more difficult programs and performs in cooler stadiums: therefor, drum corps is better than marching band, and if someone refers to drum corps as marching band, that's a bad thing." I remember as a marching member if a rookie accidentally referred to corps as band it would get ugly quick, and whenever we talked to 'civilians' we would be quick to let them know that we were not band, and there WAS a big difference.

It is pretty silly, I agree with you. This activity sometimes likes to take itself WAY too seriously, and I personally don't care about a name designation between corps & band. Drum corps has a great tradition behind the name, and I agree that I'd personally prefer to keep Drum Corps International: even though we've moved far from our beginnings, it's nice to always have the constant reminder of where we started, those that came before (often WAY before) us, etc.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

To be blunt...

Because drum corps has always been a elitist activity. It's highly competitive, from walking in the door to audition to competing on the field at Finals. It's an activity where we're always ranking/rating EVERYTHING: there are some corps discussion about brown vs orange trays, or red vs green koolaid! I've read member blogs where even shower water pressure is rated on a site-by-site basis! Fans argue about which era is "better," or more true or whatnot. It is only natural that elitism creeps into outside world a bit, and I think marching members have an attitude of, "I had to audition to become a member, our corps works WAY harder on more difficult programs and performs in cooler stadiums: therefor, drum corps is better than marching band, and if someone refers to drum corps as marching band, that's a bad thing." I remember as a marching member if a rookie accidentally referred to corps as band it would get ugly quick, and whenever we talked to 'civilians' we would be quick to let them know that we were not band, and there WAS a big difference.

It is pretty silly, I agree with you. This activity sometimes likes to take itself WAY too seriously, and I personally don't care about a name designation between corps & band. Drum corps has a great tradition behind the name, and I agree that I'd personally prefer to keep Drum Corps International: even though we've moved far from our beginnings, it's nice to always have the constant reminder of where we started, those that came before (often WAY before) us, etc.

well said

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

As someone who attends WC and Open Class shows, I agree with Mike D's comments and do not think people who attend WC shows would be happy with smaller corps with 28-40 in the horn line. The only exception of a WC corps that I can think of would be BAC in the late 70's/early 80's but that was only tolerated out of respect for their pluck and determination and for the size it was quite a powerful group. And yes there are a few smaller WC corps such a s Pioneer and Cascades and they are well received, but at Allentown some people are still walking round when the smaller corps perform and at prelims, many do not arrive at shows in Indy until after 5 PM when the WC corps ranked 15 and higher perform. In my opinion they've missed some great shows and as someone who has to travel to get to Indy as do many others, I'm not sure why you'd make the trip and not try and enjoy every minute.

Mike D is correct when he speaks of low attendance at OC shows and there are many reasons for low attendance that belongs more on the Open Class threads than a WC thread, although I think it drives home a point often mentioned in threads--many of those who complain do not support the activity financially or by attending shows. Perhaps before really scathing comments appears on DCP, copies of ticket stubs, credit card receipts from corps souvenir booths, and a copy of income tax returns to show donations to favorite corps which are tax deductions. This could only be overridden by volunteer hours with a corps or current marching experience, but I digress.

Recently I had to look up some numbers from the Department of Education and I believe there are approximately 25,000 public high schools and 10,000 private high schools, though to me the number of public high schools seems low and the number of private high schools seems high. There are not 35,000 music programs that could do and would be bored with what BD, Phantom, Star, SCV, 27th, etc. did in the past. Keep in mind I am also someone who believes that the shows of the past cannot be done again, but not because the ship has sailed. We will never see "Spartacus." "E=MC2," or "Angels and Demons" either. The time, the people involved, and the styles are what made past shows great as well as present shows great. However, with so many high schools and high school musicians, while it is highly unlikely it is not impossible that there would be 128 kids who might like to march in a drum corps called "Tradition." I do not think the goals would be accomplished, I don't think fans of past shows would be teary eyed as the old shows were recreated, and unless they were exhibition only, I don't think they would do well competitively.

One more note regarding kinds not wanting to join. I love travelling to Colonial Williamsburg and Yorktown, and the fife and drum corps make the experience. Now playing colonial tunes, marching like colonial soldiers, all while dealing with rude tourists who get in the way of your formations for a photo op (do you really think a selfie with a colonial background makes you look good?), doesn't sound to me like a great time. However, the kids are passionate about what they do, they do it well, the training is rigorous (in Williamsburg many are also colonial characters, especially during the summer months) and keeping a spot is very competitive and unlike the other reenactors, all but the director of the fife and rum corps are unpaid. Some do it because they love history, others do it because they love to perform, but there's a waiting lost of young people who want to join. You never know what interests people, especially high school students.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Why do you think "most" fans are cool with as few as 28 horns? I doubt it. There are constant complaints about low attendance at Open class shows posted on DCP.

You describe one type of MB of the past, but that is besides the point. The OP is looking to have kids of today's improved bands march and play old shows of 30-40 years ago, note-for-note and step-for-step.

In my area, the "corps style" MB movement started in the early 70's and accelerated through the 80's, with competitive circuits like TOB, EMBA, NESBA, Cavalcade, NYSFBC providing opportunities for bands. There was a wide range of skills, to be sure, but it was not at all as you describe universally.

Mike i think we are talking apples and oranges. I realize that people who go to DCI shows in its current incarnation will not be satisfied with 28 bugles. But there are people who would and do prefer bugles and don't mind a smaller brass section. They may not attend current DCI shows because they dislike the style of performance. A lot of these folks post on facebook in places that you dont go. Some of them go to DCA and love Bush, Fusion, etc. Some prefer the alumni corps. I think that once DCI becomes "Super Summer Sport Dance Band" (or something) that market will have space to grow. But it doesn't need the critical mass of DCI because of much lower costs. Apples and oranges.

It can be done-my old corps got onto the streets last summer for the first time in nearly a 1/2. Dozen years, and in a sdca show in a couple of months. The kids were happy and proud and so were the vets. It was a simple little drum and bugle corps. Why do you hate groups like this so much? Some folks dont want or need synths, bflat, etc. they get out and do it: why do you have to denigrate it? I love the sound of g horns and hope this little artform survives and allows people to appreciate g horns and not much else. Theres no reason why everyone has to love the DCI musical extravaganza approach or nothing.

As i stated above-i dont think DCI's audience would like what he (OP) proposes. For better or worse the hard core DCI people want to throw everything in to the pot. This approach is fine and seemingly has served competitive bands well. But i think theres a place for a small movement of drum and bugle corps. Yes drum & bugle corps fall under the umbrella band, but with an obviously different instrumentation (as do fife & drum corps). Its certainly not breaking a law to like or favor any of these approachs.

Maybe your area was ahead of the game. I suspect with such a high concentration of top drum and bugle corps Jersey was a bit of an anomaly. But i think you know the general standard of bands for the 60s and 70s was show band. I still see hs bands using lyres. Buffalo hats though seem to br mostly gone. :). And to this day most HS bands do not compete. You admitted that in a thread awhile back. Most are lucky to do 1/2 time shows and the odd band festival. Really in this era of cut backs-lucky to exist at all. The change over time is that most have adopted 'corps' style. (Sorry about the typos: my contacts are giving me trouble).

Edited by pearlsnaredrummer77
Link to comment
Share on other sites

To be blunt...

Because drum corps has always been a elitist activity. It's highly competitive, from walking in the door to audition to competing on the field at Finals. It's an activity where we're always ranking/rating EVERYTHING: there are some corps discussion about brown vs orange trays, or red vs green koolaid! I've read member blogs where even shower water pressure is rated on a site-by-site basis! Fans argue about which era is "better," or more true or whatnot. It is only natural that elitism creeps into outside world a bit, and I think marching members have an attitude of, "I had to audition to become a member, our corps works WAY harder on more difficult programs and performs in cooler stadiums: therefor, drum corps is better than marching band, and if someone refers to drum corps as marching band, that's a bad thing." I remember as a marching member if a rookie accidentally referred to corps as band it would get ugly quick, and whenever we talked to 'civilians' we would be quick to let them know that we were not band, and there WAS a big difference.

It is pretty silly, I agree with you. This activity sometimes likes to take itself WAY too seriously, and I personally don't care about a name designation between corps & band. Drum corps has a great tradition behind the name, and I agree that I'd personally prefer to keep Drum Corps International: even though we've moved far from our beginnings, it's nice to always have the constant reminder of where we started, those that came before (often WAY before) us, etc.

I do think you are right. But i don't know if this practice and philosophy has been so helpful for the overall health of the activity. I think thats its played a large part in making it even more of a niche preferred by " band geeks."

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hmmmm...

!) If it is true that many of us hate seeing the downward trend in school funding and/or basic scheduling support for music which has been increasingly happen over the past decade, and;

2) If it is true that "marching band" is increasingly being seen (or at least debated) as being as much a "sport" as an art; and

3) If it is true that many of our nation's schools are becoming little more than "sports academies" (I'll take the conjecture hit on this one, although it is based on what I have seen over the past 33 years as a public school music teacher)...

Maybe a "grass-roots" campaign should be started whereby public pressure is placed upon School Boards and Administration to include Marching Band (ALL costs...staffing, travel, equipment) under the aegis of that school's interscholastic sports budget. Hell, we play for the football team's halftime show 4-6 times a year at their games;and supply the expected "Pep Band" at the football and basketball games (face it...where are most of these Pep Band kids coming from? The MARCHING BAND!).

Here's the budgetary reality in MY small, rural school district:

Amount of budget monies allocated for the 13-14 academic year for the K-12 music department (NOT including salaries): 7.003.00

Amount of budget monies allocated for the 13-14 academic year for 4-12 Interscholastic Athletic department (NOT including salaries): 169,995.00

Maybe it's time we share a little bit of the pie. However, I'm not going to hold my breath while I wait. We'll see real quickly what the public's perception of Marching Band is...Art or Sport.

Edited by HornTeacher
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I do think you are right. But i don't know if this practice and philosophy has been so helpful for the overall health of the activity. I think thats its played a large part in making it even more of a niche preferred by " band geeks."

IMO it's exactly what it is...i would never had admitted it years ago but easily see what we were bitd.....cooler? maybe but none the less...we are what we are...and forget those who think the activity is lame.....as many do.....so what!...maybe its time to look at what we do realistically. Maybe we look at the MB activity like outsiders look at us....and thats why we hate the comparison so much.

Edited by GUARDLING
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

As someone who attends WC and Open Class shows, I agree with Mike D's comments and do not think people who attend WC shows would be happy with smaller corps with 28-40 in the horn line.

And that's part of the pity and the problem IMO. DC has gotten, for various reasons, to where only the top are deemed "worthy" of attention. Have we gotten so 'elitist' that we will end up with only a few corps left and then complain about the loss.

Or as Pogo put it "We have met the enemy and they is us".

Edited by JimF-LowBari
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...