ranintothedoor Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 It's weird, I agree but I'd also say both of these corps are still kind of working to find their place. Even when Bluecoats show "misses" it is interesting and admirable 'miss' as opposed to a boring, predictable win. But it feels like both of those corps are struggling to find their way to the next level. In the last 10 years Bluecoats have achieved above 5th twice, while typically placing 6thish. That is obviously incredible consistency, but if the corps is trying to move up competitively it seems the corps doesn't quite know how to make that next jump. Blue Knights have not placed Top 6 at all in that same 10 year span, but consistently place 10thish. Again, AWESOME consistency, but if they're looking to jump up a level, it seems they don't quite have the answer. Other corps seems to be either consistent (BD, Cadets, Crown lately), or perhaps consistent with an anomaly year based on strength of membership or strength of show design (i.e. Phantom is often Top 5ish, with a great year putting them Top 3 and an 'off' year putting them 6th or worse). But Bluecoats and Blue Knights in particular (and Madison Scouts, and maybe Boston Crusaders as well, to an extent) seem to be in a rut as far as taking their competitiveness to the next level. I'm with you. Competitively I think their historical placements have more to do with money, training capabilities, DCI scheduling and attracting talent than design issues... but that goes more into a slotting discussion in another thread. :-) I guess my point was that, in terms of me personally enjoying a corps' shows year to year, I look forward most to what these two come up with. I would also say that groups like Pioneer that develop specific idioms they like to stay within are always intriguing to watch, as giving yourself design boundaries sometimes force you to be really creative. As opposed to, say, pushing those boundaries and then not really knowing what to do with it (ie amp'ed vocals). BD percussion came out one year, and did the physical movements of stepping forward, then moving left playing, then moving right, playing, then stepping back playing, then dipping low, playing. You know the one I'm referring to ? Its a cool move. So cool that about a dozen or more Corps adopted almost the identical move the following year.. and the year after that... and the year... well.. you get the point. This always annoyed me as a fan, but I understand as an educator. When you and your kids see something cool and they want to do it themselves... it's hard to say no for aesthetic reasons when they are genuinely excited about it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigW Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 Teachable moment earlier about show pacing and constant up-tempo/high energy: First the issue of running out of gas is critical, and also, from a design perspective, you can't beat people over the heads constantly with the softball bat- you need to give the audience time to come down during the program or they start tuning out and become mentally fatigued. You also need to display a variety of styles and emotions as well to create varied effects, which 1: Usually result in shows people enjoy (hopefully) and 2: Help to enhance Effect numbers- the show engages in different ways, etc. As for formulaic issues- the activity has had that going on for decades. It's difficult to create a show that's truly well-paced and can hold people's attention and excite them throughout, and I would think if one would analyze the emotional contours of most of the more popular shows over time, they're somewhat different in that, but, maybe- and I did say maybe, not radically different. I've been watching a lot of the shows out of Japan recently, and you can almost put a timer to the last 30 seconds and the first minute as to what will happen. I stumbled on that while watching the timer- it doesn't mean the shows are boring, what they exactly do during those periods of time can and do differ, but they're trying to make certain emotional statements, seemingly within those specific time frames. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theCHEZman Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 Unfortunately, whether we admit it or not, we are heavily influenced by scores. BD's weird phase 2008 to present, would be considered a rut if they were placing 4th place those years instead we justify it as incredibly novel and fabulous because the judges reward them. Cavaliers were very consistent in design/style 1998-2010? and changed their design dramatically since then and have scored much lower so where was the rut? 1998-2010 or the past few years? Crown is very consistent in their design (visually and sound wise) but will they change that any time soon? Probably not while they are scoring well. Phantom- they have been doing similar concept for 5 years and went from 3rd in 2012 to 6th in 2013. Is it time to change? Flip side of the coin, CADETS and SCV vary tremendously from year to year with respect to design and both would probably give that up if they could lock into a "concept' that keeps them in the top 3 every year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigW Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 True, Cadets and SCV, when they had a particular notable style/brand were a lot more successful... Read my earlier post on Cavies- the visual aesthetic was similar, but they did greatly vary musical compositions over those years. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fran Haring Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 I think with all forms of entertaining art, it's always great to see peaks/valleys, highs/lows. Even a 70 minute Symphony is in multiple movements with multiple tempo changes, moods, etc. 15 minutes of "run and gun," so to speak, would get old IMO: a ballad can be just as fresh, innovative, and exciting as a 215bpm virtuoso piece. I agree.... if every corps were doing that. But I really think a corps would stand out if it came out with a no-ballad show. They would be doing something no one else is currently doing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigW Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 I agree.... if every corps were doing that. But I really think a corps would stand out if it came out with a no-ballad show. They would be doing something no one else is currently doing. It could be possible. No doubt. It could be made to work but would also mean you'd have to rethink how you rest sections of the team and create pace and variety. Maybe have to feature sections while the rest of the corps gets their breather. Conceal sections or use them statically as living props, etc. Write using a lot of dynamic layers and arranging to get the crowd down and up when needed. Maybe the issue is, Fran- doing something like that would take a lot more effort and thought because you're moving out of a comfort zone and a zone of knowledge and experience. It would also take an amount of risk. In this activity, it seems risk either pays off beau-coup or blows up in your face like a gun in Daffy Duck's hands. It can be hard to take those risks at this level when you're at the pinacle, makin' some real money, and knowing you'll get a lot more money from HS jobs in the fall because of your DCI street cred. You might not want to be known as the person who does crazy stuff that doesn't work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted March 5, 2014 Share Posted March 5, 2014 Phantom. Killing people was inventive and interesting the first time, but doing the same thing every year isn't as exciting. There is some great classical music out there they can do without doing the same storyline each year Phantom for sure. was about to say Colts til I saw the announcement for this summer.Academy...PC....Pioneer...Cavies Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted March 5, 2014 Share Posted March 5, 2014 I completely understand the "breather" thing. Heck, when I marched, back in the day, even though our drills were nowhere near the velocity and sheer physical demand of today's stuff, we welcomed the "standstill" concert number for that very same reason. But it just seems there is such a formulaic nature to so many shows. I would agree there is still a bit of a formulaic approach to many shows, but it's not as bad as it was say 10-15 years ago. slow, soft build into big hit up tempo ballad more uptemo into tempo change for faster ending Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fran Haring Posted March 5, 2014 Share Posted March 5, 2014 I so welcome all the new advances for a couple reasons but one for sure. I hope that all these new advances alienate all you curmudgeons so much that you never come back! Seriously! Good bye! See ya! Later days. Don't let the door hit ya! Ciao bela! Ahhh now i can sit back an enjoy some interesting music. Not a fan of the "how to win friends and influence people" school of thought? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FTNK Posted March 5, 2014 Share Posted March 5, 2014 I think Cadets are in a rut pretty bad. Design-wise, they seem to be spinning their wheels trying to find an approach that will keep them in the title hunt every year (Crown and BD seem to have that figured out, though of course peformance quality, number of age outs, etc. is a big factor as well). Visually, and to some extent musically, since 2007, they seem to be recycling the same vocabulary of moves from the late 90s/early 2000s. 2007 was essentially 2000+1998 with 30 seconds of narration on top, and 2008 wasn't far off except with the prop and all. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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