All animals are equal (but some are more equal than others)

[Stu]

Marketing slogans don't define reality. How many times does that need to be repeated?

Or maybe you really do "Set it and forget it!"

Oh, I forgot, 'perception is reality’ and authoritative definitions are meaningless. The facts that DCI has marketed itself as a form of Sport and that many aspects of Sports definitions are clearly applicable to the activity are to be disregarded. Interesting concept. I will concede that people like football coaches and artists scoff at the sport connections; but that does not change the actuality of the activity being an athletic competition; it just means that those people are choosing to be obtuse. But, for sake of agreement let's say your reasoning is correct. Using your reasoning as a basis to make designations, what a person can do then is also disregard the marketing slogan promotions and authoritative definitions of other things; and on their own perceive the director’s cut of the movie Caligula as not being pornography but is in their reality a family film; and then they can use that argument to allow it to be shown to elementary school children without any reservation or objection from you. Or.... is the movie Caligula pornography because it was promoted as such and contains the aspects of porn, and is DCI a form of Sport because it is promoted as such and contains the aspects of athletic competition?

[corpsband]

Oh, I forgot, 'perception is reality’ and authoritative definitions are meaningless.

I didn't say either of those two things. Another case of makin' s### up...

[2muchcoffeeman]

Joe Allison's argument that Madison '88's baritone solo would have been "more idiomatic" (and thus preferable) if it had been a trombone solo . . .

Later . . . he discusses an occasion where a high school wind ensemble "played one of the Holst suites with nine bell-front euphoniums and no trombones" and he calls that a "sacrilege" . . .

Idiomatic? Since when did that become the standard? Ninety-five percent of all music ever performed by a drum and bugle corps was not composed for drum and bugle corps. Even Sousa wrote woodwinds into his marches.

One of the foundational, defining ideas of drum corps is that it adapts music to its own, unique setting. The examples are endless, and they are the whole point of the enterprise. Imagine a world in which SCV had never put Simple Gifts into an 80-horn company front. It's a world I prefer not to imagine. Imagine if Dennis DeLucia had never adapted Black Market Juggler for his drum line. Imagine if Wayne Downey had heard Chicago play "Free," and decided, nah. Imagine if the Madison Scouts had not adapted Concerto For Guitar and Jazz Orchestra for brass and percussion. Imagine if the Garfield Cadets had not taken Rocky Point Holiday, a piece written for a wind ensemble, and turned it into a pivot point for the entire drum and bugle corps activity.These are musical/visual moments that form the very DNA of drum and bugle corps. They are the crown jewels, the exemplars of the craft. And our judges are wringing their hands over idiom?

This concept is not unique to drum corps. It is universal to art. The origins of jazz are in spiritual song. Literary romanticism owes much to knowledge about human psychology. Elements of modern art can be traced to earlier periods. Today's pop-music superstars are DJs who can masterfully mix samples of just about any music you can think of. The Manhattan Transfer adapts all forms of music to 4-part harmony. The world of art is a huge mashup.

But note: the blending of ingredients is not done in one universal pot. Hip-hop is still hip-hop; just because there's a sample of Gladys Knight looping around in there doesn't mean the Pips are up there on stage with the DJ. Just because jazz is an outgrowth of gospel music doesn't mean Count Basie put a church choir on stage with his band. And just because the 27th Lancers played "Danny Boy" doesn't mean they dragged a drunken tenor out onto the field to sing into a microphone. Without boundaries to define the form, it all becomes undifferentiated sound. Any artist knows as much. Ansel Adams' photographs were defined as much by what he left out as what he let in. Every schoolkid knows that an essay needs a topic sentence to provide focus and clarity to the composition. All art has boundaries. The NY Philharmonic may play a program of show tunes, but it's still a philharmonic orchestra with all the instrumentation that implies -- and none of the instrumentation that it doesn't. And that's why people will buy tickets to the phil: to see an orchestra play show tunes. God help Garth Brooks if he ever brings Zamfir on stage with him.

If we're going to start worrying whether the instrumentation in DCI is true enough to the composer's original vision, then Blue Knights might as well drop their horns and learn to pick if they're ever going to play Pat Metheny again. Troopers need to start taking vocal lessons, because "Battle Hymn of the Republic" is a spiritual. Phantom better learn to march violins because Tchaikovsky.

Idiom? Seriously? The transfer of idiom from one form to another is the whole point. If we eliminate the distinctions between musical settings, then we lose variety in music. If a restaurant dumps all the ingredients into the same pot, every item on the menu is the same. If drum corps is everything, then it is nothing.

Edited March 7, 2014 by 2muchcoffeeman

[seen-it-all]

First NAMBLA, and now Caligula. Stu, you are so lost in your own sauce, man. Come up for air.

[Stu]

Bad arranging is and still will be bad arranging. I'd guess that you might a wide variety of brass instruments used in solo/small ensemble situations. I seriously don't expect to see every corps marching a trombone section.

To call something good or bad arranging is really nothing more than a subjective call. I know musical 'experts' who like the arranging of Trans-Siberian Orchestra Christmas charts and call them good, and I also know musical ‘experts’ who despise their arranging and call them bad. So, who is correct? Are the arrangements of Trans-Siberian Orchestra good or bad? Or does ot just depend on the person writing the review?

[Fred Windish]

Idiom? Seriously? The whole transfer of idiom from one form to another is the whole point. If we eliminate the distinctions between musical settings, then we lose variety in music. If a restaurant dumps all the ingredients into the same pot, every item on the menu is the same. If drum corps is everything, then it is nothing.

Your entire post is well-written, sir! I particularly like the quote of you above. Over so many years, I took great enjoyment in appreciating what the corps managed to do within their instrumentation limits. This was always 'my' unique activity, translating music in a different form. A form that thrilled me.

I will also add, I do believe DCI is on a straight path to woodwinds. The mindset of those in charge today makes this inevitable. They could be right. I will be sad.

Edited March 6, 2014 by Fred Windish

[Stu]

First NAMBLA, and now Caligula. Stu, you are so lost in your own sauce, man. Come up for air.

If 'perception is reality' is a truism it has to apply to things like NAMBLA and Caligula; you cannot pick and choose your subject matter and just apply it to DCI. ‘Perception’ mindset philosophy, in which each individual can determine what they want to define and disregard the perception of others, is a theoretical construct; but ‘in reality’ one cannot actually live by that standard, which is my point of bringing in subjects like NAMBLA and Caligula. Because, if ‘perception is reality’ is a truism, people must steer away from making determinations concerning the perceptions of others; we therefore would have no right to address issues in anyone else’s ‘perception’; and how dare we make any legal or moral decisions against anyone who has a different ‘perception’ than you or I have whether it is DCI or somthing else.

Edited March 6, 2014 by Stu

[corpsband]

To call something good or bad arranging is really nothing more than a subjective call. I know musical 'experts' who like the arranging of Trans-Siberian Orchestra Christmas charts and call them good, and I also know musical ‘experts’ who despise their arranging and call them bad. So, who is correct? Are the arrangements of Trans-Siberian Orchestra good or bad? Or does ot just depend on the person writing the review?

Absolutely subjective.

Using the criteria on the sheets as interpreted by the all-too-human judge who relies on his own training and background to assist him in his application of the criteria to the performance at hand.

Yet another reason drum corps is FAR from a sport.

[funkjazzaxe]

Bad arranging is and still will be bad arranging. I'd guess that you might a wide variety of brass instruments used in solo/small ensemble situations. I seriously don't expect to see every corps marching a trombone section.

I agree with this. I highly doubt corps will come out of the gate looking like Ohio State Marching Band with sousaphones and trombones waving. There will probably be features and mic'd solos and stuff where they will get worked in. Maybe a quick gliss effect here and there. Maybe a couple nice solos. Proponents will say "see- that sounded great, no big deal, not really a huge change". Which leads to my stance of why the need to have band instruments at all, then. If they are just most likely to be used for "color", and there is already an instrument (save for the gliss effects) that already is a really close shade of that color- baritone- why the need to push this stuff? Just so a designer can make a tiny tweak in tone and timbre, huge changes that basically redefine what a drum & bugle corps is are instituted. It is very bizarre to me- I've never seen an activity implode on itself for the sake of things that most in the activity don't want and that don't really have much impact on the actual product. Just tossing out everything that makes it unique and special in the music ensemble world so someone can have access to a "tonal color". Bollocks I say!

It has been said in this thread that someone took an informal poll of kids and none of them seemed to care. Funny, because everyone I know- kids to old timers- connected to DCI don't like the changes and absolutely don't want to simply be summer BOA. Wander up to any hornline or drumline warming up in the lot this summer and say "hey, what's the name of your marching band" and see how fast you get corrected "this is a drum corps"...

Edited March 6, 2014 by funkjazzaxe

[Stu]

Absolutely subjective.

Using the criteria on the sheets as interpreted by the all-too-human judge who relies on his own training and background to assist him in his application of the criteria to the performance at hand.

Yet another reason drum corps is FAR from a sport.

Ok. However, for you to be consistent and not hypocritical in your reasoning, (which is the use of criteria on the sheets as interpreted by the all-too-human judge who relies on his own training and background to assist him in his application of the criteria to the performance at hand), you must also contend the following: Athletic competitive events such as Diving, Parallel Bars, Gymnastics, Half Pipe, Slopestyle, Aerials, Figure Skating, etc…, in which the rankings and winners are determined in the exact same manner as the athletic event as DCI, are also Far from sports.