jjeffeory Posted March 10, 2014 Author Share Posted March 10, 2014 (edited) There's a regional in St. George, UT, but that is the farthest west that they go. Would be great if they spread out to California, push the level of some of those programs up to BOA level. There was a BOA regional on November 9th, 2013 in Long Beach, CA. It conflicted with another big show that day at RCC (which I think was a WBA judged show called the Orange Classic) and a NorCal WBA show. There also were several SCSBOA events ( Including another show in Riverside besides the Orange Classic) that day as well as a MBOS show.... It looks like a bunch of bands went to the RCC WBA show over the BOA regional in Long Beach. This includes several previous BOA Regional finalists. I'm sure money is a factor to a degree. There was a regional in St. George, UT on November 2nd, 2013 ( Looks like it was part of the Utah State Marching Band Championships) I've attended a BOA regional in USC's Stadium where American Fork (UT) won several years ago, and there was a band from Washington State there. Last time a regional was held in Memorial Stadium was in 2006 I believe... I attended a BOA regional in Santa Clarita, CA a few years ago (October 31st 2009). There was also a BOA regional in St. George, UT that year. There was a BOA regional in Hemet, CA in 2010. Yikes... That's out of the way for everybody... I went to a BOA regional in Flagstaff, AZ (2007) where I saw a band from NM. There was a BOA regional in Las Vegas @ UNLV for several years ( last one was in 2008) where I got my first taste of California marching bands. So, BOA is very much present out West, just not in the Central part of California. There is always at least 1 BOA Regional out West and sometimes there are two BOA West Regionals. The problem is that there are quite a few choices and many different judging systems out West. It would be interesting to see how well a MiM/USBands judged show would be attended, and how many of the "Power Bands" from the various circuits would participate. From what I've seen, the top bands from SCSBOA and WBA don't really switch shows or mingle; the WBA bands either do BOA or they stick to WBA. The SCSBOA schools may do the BOA regional or MBOS, but I don't recall too many doing that as their shows seem to be more music focused ( as the USBands sheets seem to indicate). Schools from other Western circuits outside of California visit the circuits mentioned above from time to time, especially BOA and WBA. I do see that this newer MBOS circuit has participants from schools who have frequented SCSBOA, BOA, and WBA. Please correct me if I'm wrong, I don't follow this stuff as much as I used to... Edited March 10, 2014 by jjeffeory Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Balash Posted March 10, 2014 Share Posted March 10, 2014 If the MiM shows are the same as the shows listed on USBands site as "The Marching Band Series powered by USBands," here's where the shows are so far: -October 11th: Texas - this show will compete with a BOA regional in Conroe. -November 1: Annapolis, MD I also saw a show listed on their site for the Midwest on October 25th-no site given, but this may be a terrible idea as there's a BOA Super Regional that weekend at Lucas Oil Stadium, and I can probably count on one hand the amount of Midwestern bands that have participated in a USBands show. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fsubone Posted March 10, 2014 Share Posted March 10, 2014 There was a regional on November 9th, 2013 in Long Beach, CA. It conflicted with another big show that day at RCC. It looks like the SCSBOA bands went to the RCC show, and more of the WBA type bands went to the BOA regional. There was a regional in St. George, UT on November 2nd, 2013 ( Looks like it was part of the State Marching Band Championshops for Utah) Please correct me if I'm wrong, I don't follow this stuff as much as I used to... I forgot about the Long Beach show, thanks for the reminder. There were other ones going on that day through WBA and SCSBOA. Garfield does have a point that the "super-regionals" don't extend past San Antonio. I saw one of the ones down at USC, I think in 2005. So they were going on that recently. BOA is very slowly catching out in California, especially with a couple of the schools making the trip out for Nationals. I think Ayala has started going out more often, and one from SoCal (maybe Fountain Valley?) went out a couple of years ago. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjeffeory Posted March 10, 2014 Author Share Posted March 10, 2014 (edited) I forgot about the Long Beach show, thanks for the reminder. There were other ones going on that day through WBA and SCSBOA. Garfield does have a point that the "super-regionals" don't extend past San Antonio. I saw one of the ones down at USC, I think in 2005. So they were going on that recently. BOA is very slowly catching out in California, especially with a couple of the schools making the trip out for Nationals. I think Ayala has started going out more often, and one from SoCal (maybe Fountain Valley?) went out a couple of years ago. Thousand Oaks went to Indy in 2002 & 2005 and was a semi-finalist in 2005. Vista Murietta went to Indy in 2008 and was a semi-finalist. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CssdMRRuvrU William S. Hart went to Indy in 2007 (28th at BOA Normally a SCSBOA band). Upland went to Indy in 2006 and was a semi-finalist. Ayala is currently the most successful competition band West of Texas, making GN finals in 2013 & 2004 and going other years making it to semi-finals Etiwanda went to Indy in 1999 (8th). Video is from 1999 (Pure Imagination show)... They also went in 2001 (14th) and was a semi-finalist that year. They're probably the 2nd most successful West coast band to do BOA. ...with American Fork (UT) being third, imho. American Fork goes to Indy pretty frequently too and they're consistent semi-finalists. They were 14th at GN in 2013, which is their best showing yet. I really believe that American Fork would get a boost with the MiM judging criteria. The SCSBOA schools would probably fare better under a system with more of a musical emphasis. I have always been curious how the current champion Rancho Bernardo ( 2013 SCSBOA 6A champion) would do compared to South Torrence (2013 SCJA Champion) as I don't believe a SCJA participant has gone to BOA GN. ...or how either would fare in WBA compared to Ayala (2013 BOA finalist and 2012 WBA Champion who didn't go to WBA in 2013 because they went to Indy) or even the current 2013 WBA champion Upland ( Who Ayala outscored in head to head competition this year) . I have always been curious how James Logan (previous WBA champion many, many times) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zE_A9yQz7K0 would fare at BOA too, but they never seem to travel outside of Central CA/Bay Area... Gilbert (AZ) used to be very good as well and were pretty even with Ayala a few times in the WBA circuit, but their ABODA circuit is ratings only until State from what I gather. I guess my point is that there are many good bands that could be served by a MiM event in the region. These bands do well in their local circuits and have historically placed pretty well at BOA GN and at the various BOA regionals when they can go, but their shows are designed differently than what BOA may reward. FSUbone, I don't know where you live, but I live very close to a rather large concentration of very high quality band programs in SoCal (Chino Hills, CA area). I drive by these schools frequently (Ayala, Etiwanda, Chino, Chino Hills, Upland, Mission Viejo, Rancho Cucamonga, Diamond Bar, Valley View), and it amazes me how close these schools are to one another but that they often compete in different circuits and never see one another except for at a football game. Some of these schools are never judged against one another. It would be amazing to see these and the other schools in the region at the same event once in a while. Maybe a MiM show in the area would let that happen? The thing is that these different circuits require that the schools perform with slightly different styles ( as shown in the videos above) with different emphasises in the different judging systems. Garfield is correct; there is no super-regional out West, which would be nice to have. The difference between the West, and especially CA compared to Texas is that there are more circuits splitting the quality programs out West. They have different foci. SCSBOA have field competitions AND parade compeitions. WBA doesn't. Arizona is mostly a ratings system. Utah seems to use BOA staff for the state finals. Nevada doesn't really have much activity. So the West is fragmented. Texas has one main circuit (TBA) UIL stuff; BOA regionals; and recently USBands stuff... MiM could be a good way to unite these different systems, but I would think it needs to be interesting and provide some big value that these other circuits aren't presently doing, which is tough. **This should confirm to anyone that I'm as much of a band fanatic as I am a corps fanatic. I could also talk about some of the history of bands and shows in Ohio, Michigan, Kentucky, W. VA, and a little bit of Western PA and TN... Edited March 10, 2014 by jjeffeory Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cixelsyd Posted March 10, 2014 Share Posted March 10, 2014 Drum corps has spent 25 years trying to recruit band kids to play drum corps by enticing them to become audiences & buy t-shirts (and occasionally be students at clinics). Having a consortium band together (no pun) to promote the work of the directors and bands more directly via competitions is a natural progression of the conversation. More drum corps should be looking to form more alliances like this to promote and produce band shows, both because it helps them generate funds for their own operations and because it gives them a chance to make sure that each kid competing at those events knows what drum corps is and how they can be part of it (and at a time of the year when the information is actionable, with fall/winter audition camps). Not sure if you are aware, but a number of corps have already been running band events. I know Crown, Cadets, PR, Blue Knights, Troopers and Spokane Thunder have. However, I question what you mean by "natural progression". In the above examples, where corps have run events in their own areas, often areas that were underserved, that is natural. You could even contend that the expansion of USBands into other underserved areas of the country is natural. But this? I'm with Garfield. I think this is a very positive development. I guess you do not work for BOA, then. While there is no formal partnership or joint venture between DCI and BOA, I like to think there has been a spirit of cooperation between them. It is hard to imagine how that will continue to be the case if seven of the DCI corps band together to compete directly with BOA. So far, that is what this venture sounds like. What is your opinion on that aspect? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slingerland Posted March 10, 2014 Share Posted March 10, 2014 (edited) BOA was an off-shoot of Larry McCormick's post-Cavaliers business venture, and as such, was designed to be a way to promote "corps-style" merchandise and arrangements to bands. Having the corps see some direct income from producing the contests that those bands compete in is preferable, to me, to having another organization that has nothing directly to do with promoting or funding drum corps seeing all of the money from the growth in "corps style" bands. Competition for the business of the best bands may end up being a net positive for all involved, especially if it drives down the fees bands have to pay in order to compete in those shows (currently in the $600-900 per show range). Making it cheaper to compete may increase the number of bands who want to start competing, and the more kids who are competing in band shows increases the potential candidate pool of kids for summer drum corps. Edited March 10, 2014 by Slingerland Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cixelsyd Posted March 10, 2014 Share Posted March 10, 2014 BOA was an off-shoot of Larry McCormick's post-Cavaliers business venture, and as such, was designed to be a way to promote "corps-style" merchandise and arrangements to bands. Having the corps see some direct income from producing the contests that those bands compete in is preferable, to me, to having another organization that has nothing directly to do with promoting or funding drum corps seeing all of the money from the growth in "corps style" bands. Competition for the business of the best bands may end up being a net positive for all involved, especially if it drives down the fees bands have to pay in order to compete in those shows (currently in the $600-900 per show range). Making it cheaper to compete may increase the number of bands who want to start competing, and the more kids who are competing in band shows increases the potential candidate pool of kids for summer drum corps. Apparently, the cost has already been driven down. At some point in the not too distant past, BOA shows involved a ticket-purchasing commitment for competing bands that represented a much higher cost of entry. Alright, so you would rather see drum corps make this money than Music for All. I guess you are not concerned about that market competition disrupting the cooperation between drum corps and the band activity. But then, I still have to ask - would it not be preferable to have the whole of DCI and their 40 corps doing this nationwide, rather than just 7 corps running 4 shows? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slingerland Posted March 10, 2014 Share Posted March 10, 2014 (edited) No. I also don't think DCI should be involved in Bingo operations, asking alumni to write checks, running corps souvenir operations, or anything else the member corps do to help support themselves. What you call "disruption" I call competition. Was it good for consumers to have other brands step up their smartphone games in answer to the iPhone? Yes. It might have 'disrupted' Apple to have more compeition, but it also works to keep them driving forward in providing better, cheaper products to the end users. So will it be better or worse for bands to have more suitors looking to present their work? Better. Edited March 10, 2014 by Slingerland Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cixelsyd Posted March 10, 2014 Share Posted March 10, 2014 No. I also don't think DCI should be involved in Bingo operations, asking alumni to write checks, running corps souvenir operations, or anything else the member corps do to help support themselves. But it is okay for a consortium of 7 corps, just not a consortium of 21 or more? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slingerland Posted March 10, 2014 Share Posted March 10, 2014 (edited) Yes, it is. This is an outside fundraising/business opportunity that those corps have created. Other corps are free to do the same (or already are, as you yourself have pointed out). Should Blue Devils be required to give anyone else a cut of their Bingo proceeds? How about Troopers, since Bingo is a huge part of their financial picture too? The answer is no in both cases. Being in a cooperative to split up revenues from shared events like shows is not and should not be a life-sentence to split every penny you make on every aspect of your operations. If DCI wanted to produce a bunch of band shows as a way of helping to fund their operations, they've had 40 years to do it. When the non-G7 corps had carte blanche in the Boardroom, there was nothing stopping them from initiating the process. They didn't. So there's no reason to feel that those who are motivated to look for ways to expand their financial base and provide new avenues toward selling brand awareness for their brands shouldn't exercise those options. Edited March 10, 2014 by Slingerland 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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