Significance of the new MiM ( aka DCI G7 corps) Fall shows?

[cixelsyd]

Is this really true? Being a long time attendee of USBand (and USSBA events) and from what I know of the organization, they do reach out to member band organizations to host some state championship events as additional fundraising opportunities. How does that translate into problems staffing shows? Also, Yea! has a large number of band parents as part of their volunteer database. So again, where is this an issue?

Even I get emails a few days before a show weekend from USBands, describing how imminent shows do not have the necessary volunteer support to be run successfully, and begging for the reader to come and help because please, it is for the KIDS!

(There are never enough volunteers. It would not surprise me if every band show in every circuit was equally starved for volunteer help. But like most things, YEA! tends to be more up front about asking for help. I see no need to get defensive over this.)

I find some of the comments here very interesting, Not a single show on time in 10 years? really? I seem to attend 10 - 12 USBands shows a year and more times than not those shows are running right on time. Now there are always circumstances where times will be thrown off by issues such as weather, transportation problems, equipment issues, etc. Those things will happen in any circuit. The one thing that I do know is that USBands will not brow beat a band staff as they are trying to resolve an electronics issue to get them to stay on their performance time. If a band needs an extra 5 minutes to resolve an issue and insure that the students have a rewarding performing experience, so what if the show lags by 5 min. Are you judging the organization's success by whether they run a show to the minute or by whether they provide rewarding and valuable student experiences? I would take the latter.

While that may be a more rewarding experience for band 1, not so much for band 2, 3, 4... , who hurry up and wait in all kinds of weather as a result.

(Not sure that is how it works, anyway. I thought bands had X minutes to set up, perform and get out - not like DCI, where setup is X, show is Y, and exit is Z. Maybe band 1 always spends 7 minutes fussing over amps before performing a 7 minute show and exiting in a flash. No point in browbeating a band during setup when you have no way of knowing how much of their total time they normally allocate to setup.)

As far as being a regional circuit, one just needs to look at the growth of the organization into other markets in the country (140+ events in 20 states) to realize USBands is anything other than a regional circuit. Growth like that only comes from building on successes of prior years. And that success comes from running good events with competent adjudicators and a strong office staff putting it all together.

To address your comment about some shows having 4 judges and some having 6.... that is not an inconsistency as you suggest, it is an option for the host band. Host bands have the option of running what USBands calls a Silver or a Gold show. The Silver Show consists of 4 judges - Music Individual, Music Performance, GE and Visual. The Gold Show has 6 judges with the 2 additional judges being for Color Guard and Percussion.

As for bands jumping ship... again I need to question the legitimacy of that claim. You certainly can't support the growth USBands is experiencing with band membership on the decline as you suggest. As previous noted on another post, every circuit experiences bands coming and going... its the nature of the activity. To hear that one or two bands are leaving USBands to test other waters is certainly not the end of the the world. I am sure you will see some new bands every year as well.

One other point you may want to consider regarding the health of USBands... Sponsorships. USBands enjoys some significant sponsorships from key players in the activity. With the sponsorship dollar being stretched in today's economy, you can bet that corporations are being very careful where they are placing their dollars. It seems to me that sponsors like Yamaha and Remo are supporting the USBands growth by placing their names on events in Texas this year. Something I am sure a sponsor would not do if they didn't think it would be a successful en devour. Again, just my opinion.

I hope this clarifies some of the issues you pointed out in your original post.

Just a fan?

Based on what facts? I mean really, it's easy to make statements like this but can you support that?

I've been in the activity for 45 years, have had children go through the USSBA / USBands system as HS Band members and have volunteered on occasion for the organization.

Oh, you are not "just a fan". This makes more sense now.

[MikeD]

And one of BOA's biggest assets could be the Madison Scouts, the Blue Stars, Jersey Surf, etc.

I imagine the DCI board room after GH announces his MiM marketing program as "Our star corps are better than BOA's star corps!". I'd give up a finger-tip to be a fly on the wall when that discussion starts.

MiM is not Geroge's organization. The Cadets are one piece of it.

I'm also not seeing how the band shows MiM is hosting - four of them - would be in conflict with DCI as an organization, including the MiM member corps, creating an alliance with BOA. One MiM show in each of Annapolis, Texas, Utah, and ??? is hardly going have an impact on bands who choose to participate in BOA at either just the Regional or Regional/National level.

My guess is (and that is what it is) that if DCI and BOA were to do "something" as organizations it would include all of the DCI corps, not just those outside of MiM. I'm just not seeing a conflict.

[MikeD]

While that may be a more rewarding experience for band 1, not so much for band 2, 3, 4... , who hurry up and wait in all kinds of weather as a result.

(Not sure that is how it works, anyway. I thought bands had X minutes to set up, perform and get out - not like DCI, where setup is X, show is Y, and exit is Z. Maybe band 1 always spends 7 minutes fussing over amps before performing a 7 minute show and exiting in a flash. No point in browbeating a band during setup when you have no way of knowing how much of their total time they normally allocate to setup.)

There is a 15-minute window to get on the field, perform and get off the field. However, they are flexible when there is some sort of issue in getting a band set up, esp when they see that the band is scurrying around doing the best they can. Their goal is for bands to perform and be evaluated in as complete an environment as they can, and if it takes an extra minute or two to set up, so be it.

You also have the instance where the prior band had a lot of stuff to pack up, and sometimes that drags on delaying the next band coming on. As long as they see bands making their best effort, they work with them. They are not penalty-happy. That is one of the good things, about USBands IMO.

[Jeff Ream]

If Persona is correct, the kids marching in drum corps do so because it's DCI, not because of a corps name. I'm dealing with this now with the _kid. He knows enough to know that making his dream corps is not likely his first few years, but it doesn't bother him. "I just want to march" is his answer.

Because he's been around the activity a long time he knows that the experience will be similar, even if different in caliber, regardless of where he marches. If the majority of kids out there don't know that, then you're right, it is about marketing.

With the DCI Board now split between the G's and the O's, I'd expect marketing would be focused on a balance between "the best" and "the rest" (however one defines that) and, if it's not, I expect those O corps to exert a little more muscle to make it so.

If they buy into the notion promoted by the G's - that they are the only reason kids march and they are the best at providing the experience - then the O's should fold up the tent and just let the G's run the asylum.

If not, they should buck up, push back, and market the drum corps experience to more than just the potential members of the G-corps.

your kid has tools for education about the sport most don't....you. How many kids get cut every year going for their dream corps and never consider other options? Remember, not too long ago DCI was bragging about over 7000 kids auditioning.....which meant over 3500 were getting cut.

as for marketing, i can see the same kind of partisan stalemate we see in Congress on every issue. Plus to create new marketing, you have to spend $$, a key contention of the 7.

Now should the O's do more? yes, just as I've been saying for years OC is their own worst enemy in terms of marketing. The O's should have started it 4 yers ago, but they haven't.

[garfield]

MiM is not Geroge's organization. The Cadets are one piece of it.

I'm also not seeing how the band shows MiM is hosting - four of them - would be in conflict with DCI as an organization, including the MiM member corps, creating an alliance with BOA. One MiM show in each of Annapolis, Texas, Utah, and ??? is hardly going have an impact on bands who choose to participate in BOA at either just the Regional or Regional/National level.

My guess is (and that is what it is) that if DCI and BOA were to do "something" as organizations it would include all of the DCI corps, not just those outside of MiM. I'm just not seeing a conflict.

I get GH's connection to MiM but, you can be sure, he's going to market it under the auspices of MiM to expand his USBands reach. In fact, I imagine that this liklihood (George on the loose) is one of the things about this venture that keeps Dave and the other MiM members up at night; I'm sure they've not forgotten the G7 announcement debacle of 2010. (Maybe GH has "matured" and learned...)

I'm with you, though, in that I don't see the conflict of either the MiM/G7 or DCI/BOA relationship. Seems to me that all of them could be happy and excited about this new way to expand DCI's reach. And if it's good for MiM/G7 then it could be equally as good for DCI/BOA.

And I also agree that any DCI/BOA agreement would include all corps. I'm just suggesting that, if the G-corps don't want to play with BOA, DCI should forge the relationship anyway and utilize the other talented staff and directors that are available to them in DCI.

[garfield]

your kid has tools for education about the sport most don't....you. How many kids get cut every year going for their dream corps and never consider other options? Remember, not too long ago DCI was bragging about over 7000 kids auditioning.....which meant over 3500 were getting cut.

as for marketing, i can see the same kind of partisan stalemate we see in Congress on every issue. Plus to create new marketing, you have to spend $$, a key contention of the 7.

Now should the O's do more? yes, just as I've been saying for years OC is their own worst enemy in terms of marketing. The O's should have started it 4 yers ago, but they haven't.

Oh, I surely agree that he has had more exposure to dc than most kids, by far. But every kid in the DCI target recruiting market has a person that can guide them as well - their band director. And I think they are the key touch-points for DCI in thinking about this MiM/G7 thing.

Imagine, DCI/BOA have a circuit where DCI provides corps talent to the show. The band directors at those shows interact with the corps staffs and come to realize that those O-corps people have their crap together and can provide a very high quality experience for their marching students. When the kid comes to the director and states his intention to try out for a "dream" corps, that director can reflect on his experience with those staffs at BOA and help convince the kid that he's not sacrificing at all to consider auditioning with an O corps.

The DCI/BOA connection could be the best marketing to put a "Dad" figure in front of the kid and emphasize the quality of the O corps based on the interaction at the BOA show.

Exactly, I suspect, as the MiM/G7 envision it.

Again, admission on the part of the O's that the G's might have hit on a, potentially, great idea in forming the union with MiM is the first step in preventing "congressional deadlock" in the DCI boardroom. If imitation is the greatest form of flattery, I suspect that the G's would be honored that the rest of DCI admits that the G's have come up with a great idea.

Frankly, I love the idea, hope the G's are wildly successful, and also hope the O's aren't so full of themselves that they dismiss it out of hand just because its genesis was the G-corps.

Edited March 14, 2014 by garfield

[Stu]

There is a 15-minute window to get on the field, perform and get off the field. However, they are flexible when there is some sort of issue in getting a band set up, esp when they see that the band is scurrying around doing the best they can. Their goal is for bands to perform and be evaluated in as complete an environment as they can, and if it takes an extra minute or two to set up, so be it.

You also have the instance where the prior band had a lot of stuff to pack up, and sometimes that drags on delaying the next band coming on. As long as they see bands making their best effort, they work with them. They are not penalty-happy. That is one of the good things, about USBands IMO.

I view this in a different manner. To me it is a respect vs. narcissism issue. If the director and staff of band A place way to much stuff into the show which requires 17 min instead of 15, that means they are more than willing to encroach onto the time allotment of band B just for the sake of their own self-absorption. And governing body penalties for a band A going over the 15 min allotment just tell the directors and staff of band A that if you are not going to respect band B we, as the governing body, certainly will.

[seen-it-all]

And one of BOA's biggest assets could be the Madison Scouts, the Blue Stars, Jersey Surf, etc.

I imagine the DCI board room after GH announces his MiM marketing program as "Our star corps are better than BOA's star corps!". I'd give up a finger-tip to be a fly on the wall when that discussion starts.

I don't think BOA needs to change anything at this stage of the game. They don't really need a marquis corps (or corps plural) to latch their name onto because the standard they've set in the activity is already so well-established. It's great that MiM is doing this, and I'm sure there will be good value to what they offer, especially when it comes to evaluation from some of the top instructors and designers in DCI, but let's be honest. When that MiM show is over, many of those same instructors and designers will be getting their bands ready for BOA. Success in that circuit still carries the day when it comes to building a reputation. It's one thing to say "our star corps are better than BOA's star corps." But who cares, when BOA can then turn around and say "the best high school bands in our circuit are far better than the best high school bands in USBands. Or any other band circuit in the country."

If anything, the circuit I'd be more worried about in terms of how this will affect the everyday operations is USBands. George will make sure every ounce of energy and effort is put into those four shows. Will the other shows in the circuit suffer as a result on those days? We shall see.

[MikeD]

I view this in a different manner. To me it is a respect vs. narcissism issue. If the director and staff of band A place way to much stuff into the show which requires 17 min instead of 15, that means they are more than willing to encroach onto the time allotment of band B just for the sake of their own self-absorption. And governing body penalties for a band A going over the 15 min allotment just tell the directors and staff of band A that if you are not going to respect band B we, as the governing body, certainly will.

Boy, that is not what I meant. Band parent pit/prop crews are often staffed by a variety of differing sets of people week in and week out, at least around me. Sometimes what one set of parents can pack up and move in X minutes ends up taking a second set of parents X + Y minutes, just because of confusion and a new/different set of people...or who-knows-what issue that may have cropped up. Maybe they use a tractor with a trailor and it had to park someplace out-of-the-norm and took longer to get to the field, etc... This is just not a science; there are people involved who have a variety of skills and experience. Sometimes the venue setting does not help in facilitating a quick on/off, just due to its logistics. As long as the parents and staff are making their best efforts, I see no issue with the contest coordinator giving them a break. You can tell when there is a new crew just by watching as parents scurry about the field, bumping into each other and grabbing at the same piece of equipment. Happens all the time. Your going waaaaay overboard on this.

[MikeD]

I don't think BOA needs to change anything at this stage of the game. They don't really need a marquis corps (or corps plural) to latch their name onto because the standard they've set in the activity is already so well-established. It's great that MiM is doing this, and I'm sure there will be good value to what they offer, especially when it comes to evaluation from some of the top instructors and designers in DCI, but let's be honest. When that MiM show is over, many of those same instructors and designers will be getting their bands ready for BOA. Success in that circuit still carries the day when it comes to building a reputation. It's one thing to say "our star corps are better than BOA's star corps." But who cares, when BOA can then turn around and say "the best high school bands in our circuit are far better than the best high school bands in USBands. Or any other band circuit in the country."

If anything, the circuit I'd be more worried about in terms of how this will affect the everyday operations is USBands. George will make sure every ounce of energy and effort is put into those four shows. Will the other shows in the circuit suffer as a result on those days? We shall see.

Well, as of this year we are talking four MiM shows over the entire season. I don't see much of an impact on the "normal" USBands shows. I think this is a pretty cool set of events for those who choose to participate.