Significance of the new MiM ( aka DCI G7 corps) Fall shows?

[garfield]

Basically a way to make this work for them and only them. puting themselves head to head with BOA, gathering the best bands where they get blasted with marketing materials these corps alone.

Now...I don't think this particular idea is all that bad or nefarious, but given the recent history in the board room, anything they do will be viewed with suspicion. and since few band circuits or drum corps have an office staff like say YEA does, that of course gives them a huge advantage

I'm still not getting the conflict of interest that you suggest. They discuss MiM band contests among themselves and they discuss drum corps in the DCI board room. I'm sure there will be curiosity discussions among all the directors in the board room, but what sorts of information can MiM members glean from a DCI meeting that they would use to their own, exclusive benefit in the MiM band contests?

I fully agree that the G7's past behaviors have given justified wariness of their actions and, Lord knows, I've been in that group that passed judgement on their past actions. But I'm just not seeing how this is anything but good for the rest of the DCI corps. It brings drum corps direct outreach to their target market, it shows current HS members what they can achieve, it brings corps staffs in direct contact with potential MM's,.. Now, if MiM were to pass out fliers at MiM contests saying something like "Don't waste your time with the other DCI corps! Come to the best!", then I could see how those other corps directors would be short-shrifted by MiM.

And again, I would think that the right to use DCI in any way would come with not only the approval of the other DCI voting members, as well as some restrictions about how MiM can't undermine the rest of drum corps at the same time.

I'm just not seeing the conflict. I've been called naive here a couple of times in the past few weeks. Perhaps this is but another example of that. But until I see how MiM is competing directly against DCI or the other member corps, I'm not going to call this G7 Part Deux.

BOA has their 2014 schedule up on their website. From the descriptions here about how BOA runs shows, MiM (or, specifically, YEA's running of MiM contests) has their hands full.

Edited March 11, 2014 by garfield

[camel lips]

The Assimilation is almost complete

[garfield]

A few thoughts:

No doubt that this is a shot across the bow at BOA. Intended or perceived. Good or bad. BOA can either realize the challenge and step up their game, or watch the numbers shift.

• As with most of the G7 grabs, I find myself wondering how this benefits all seven. I get it. This time we are dealing with a process that is already in YEA's wheelhouse, so it's not like MiM needs to reinvent the ... wheel ... house? ... But how do the non-YEA corps benefit? I don't run the corps, so it's not like I am presuming I need to be satisfied with the intent and results. Just curious.

First, to nit-pick, I'm wondering about your use of the phrase "...most of the G7 grabs...". As far as I know, there have been only two, one of which ended with some G7 member corps regaining a position on the BOD (hardly a coup, IMO). I'm no G7 apologist, but I think "many" misrepresents what's been done until now.

To your point, though, I think Jeff said it well - the non-YEA corps will be a part of the selective screening of potential recruits at MiM shows, and can market themselves to the exclusion of the other 15 corps. But I think this is a bit of a red herring. The G7 corps now field mostly full corps today so, while they will be cherry-picking the best of the best from the MiM shows, there will still be tons o kids that try out for these corps and don't make it. Ideally, these potential MM will consider other corps as an entry to the activity instead of going home for the summer (and I would hope that, magnanimously, MiM would offer some info on other corps available to these kids instead of sitting at home). The fact is that MiM will get no more kids in their corps than the 150 DCI allows (as of now). They may get some of the best recruits, but there will still be tons of potential members available for other corps to go after.

[fsubone]

FSUbone,

I don't know where you live, but I live very close to a rather large concentration of very high quality band programs in SoCal (Chino Hills, CA area). I drive by these schools frequently (Ayala, Etiwanda, Chino, Chino Hills, Upland, Mission Viejo, Rancho Cucamonga, Diamond Bar, Valley View), and it amazes me how close these schools are to one another but that they often compete in different circuits and never see one another except for at a football game. Some of these schools are never judged against one another. It would be amazing to see these and the other schools in the region at the same event once in a while. Maybe a MiM show in the area would let that happen? The thing is that these different circuits require that the schools perform with slightly different styles ( as shown in the videos above) with different emphasises in the different judging systems. Garfield is correct; there is no super-regional out West, which would be nice to have. The difference between the West, and especially CA compared to Texas is that there are more circuits splitting the quality programs out West. They have different foci. SCSBOA have field competitions AND parade compeitions. WBA doesn't. Arizona is mostly a ratings system. Utah seems to use BOA staff for the state finals. Nevada doesn't really have much activity. So the West is fragmented.

Texas has one main circuit (TBA) UIL stuff; BOA regionals; and recently USBands stuff...

I'm north of that, and have seen and competed against most of those bands you mentioned. You are right though that the multiple circuits in California does lead to different groupings. SCSBOA, WBA, NCBA, and the even smaller circuits. I think if they do expand into BOA, there would need to be some consolidation. Maybe group a couple of the SoCal circuits together into one larger one. It does lead to of course more diverse band programs, and the ability for bands of all sizes to compete. Wouldn't mind if they scrapped the parade band section, never been a fan of that. Chino Hills is really a band that's expanded quickly and gotten very good, very quickly. Maybe this MiM thing could be a good way to bring BOA out West, especially with SCV and BD being apart of this. Two big DCI programs could help get the ball rolling quickly to bring USBands or BOA out here.

[jjeffeory]

I'm north of that, and have seen and competed against most of those bands you mentioned. You are right though that the multiple circuits in California does lead to different groupings. SCSBOA, WBA, NCBA, and the even smaller circuits. I think if they do expand into BOA, there would need to be some consolidation. Maybe group a couple of the SoCal circuits together into one larger one. It does lead to of course more diverse band programs, and the ability for bands of all sizes to compete. Wouldn't mind if they scrapped the parade band section, never been a fan of that. Chino Hills is really a band that's expanded quickly and gotten very good, very quickly. Maybe this MiM thing could be a good way to bring BOA out West, especially with SCV and BD being apart of this. Two big DCI programs could help get the ball rolling quickly to bring USBands or BOA out here.

So, with SCV and BD being part of MiM ( aka G7), it looks like this could be a really great opportunity for MiM or even USBands to expand into the West, and particularly California even though these two corps do greatly tangentally influence the region already through BOA (corps-style bands and philosophy) and also through all the people who pass through those programs. Should anyone see MiM having shows as being in conflict with BOA?

Does anyone see a need for all or many local circuits to consolidate into a larger circuit? I'm wondering how MiM would be different than what is already established or what is being provided by BOA. I still get the feeling that the entire MB scene in the US isn't yet completely homogonized stylistically like it is in DCI. This is a positive in my mind.

I was really surprised to learn that SCSBOA has such an active parade section since I'm not a huge fan of parades, however, California is such a winter destination with all the bowl games and parades, I can the benefit of that division.

Also, I've talked a bit about some competitive marching groups here, but there I haven't mentioned the larger group of marching ensembles that don't compete spread out all over the country. I wonder what an event like an MiM show could do to persuade these types of groups to start putting themselves out there.

Anyway, MiM has only 4 shows this year, and it looks like 2 of them are going to be in Conrose, TX and Annapolis, MD. That only leaves two other possible locations; nothing big is likely to happen this year.

I'm just trying to guess what they're doing and looking at what I belive would be logical for them to do.

I don't really see BOA expanding into a format that is another more than the current regional format, especially out West, but it would be nice to have one standard judging system across the country from week to week like we have in DCI.

The regionals are nice, but getting timely and consistent feedback is better if we want to raise the bar for programs. I dunno, I'm just thinking out loud mainly and I'm trying to adjust to current conditions in DCI and the marching arts world.

Edited March 11, 2014 by jjeffeory

[Jeff Ream]

I'm still not getting the conflict of interest that you suggest. They discuss MiM band contests among themselves and they discuss drum corps in the DCI board room. I'm sure there will be curiosity discussions among all the directors in the board room, but what sorts of information can MiM members glean from a DCI meeting that they would use to their own, exclusive benefit in the MiM band contests?

I fully agree that the G7's past behaviors have given justified wariness of their actions and, Lord knows, I've been in that group that passed judgement on their past actions. But I'm just not seeing how this is anything but good for the rest of the DCI corps. It brings drum corps direct outreach to their target market, it shows current HS members what they can achieve, it brings corps staffs in direct contact with potential MM's,.. Now, if MiM were to pass out fliers at MiM contests saying something like "Don't waste your time with the other DCI corps! Come to the best!", then I could see how those other corps directors would be short-shrifted by MiM.

And again, I would think that the right to use DCI in any way would come with not only the approval of the other DCI voting members, as well as some restrictions about how MiM can't undermine the rest of drum corps at the same time.

I'm just not seeing the conflict. I've been called naive here a couple of times in the past few weeks. Perhaps this is but another example of that. But until I see how MiM is competing directly against DCI or the other member corps, I'm not going to call this G7 Part Deux.

BOA has their 2014 schedule up on their website. From the descriptions here about how BOA runs shows, MiM (or, specifically, YEA's running of MiM contests) has their hands full.

the perception is MIM isn't going to just be about band shows. So, with them being on the board, they know the real dirt in DCI, and can use it for their advantage

[charlie1223]

the perception is MIM isn't going to just be about band shows. So, with them being on the board, they know the real dirt in DCI, and can use it for their advantage

You're going to need to illustrate an example. How can "real dirt" on DCI be used advantageously?

[CallipygianKing]

In fact, they are proposing to "...go off and do their own thing..." as many here suggested they do and said they'd be fine with, and they are doing it in a way that doesn't compete with DCI or the other corps.

I remember when the same thing happened to Drum Corps Midwest. The big corps went off and did their own thing. How'd that work out for DCM?

[perc2100]

First, to nit-pick, I'm wondering about your use of the phrase "...most of the G7 grabs...". As far as I know, there have been only two, one of which ended with some G7 member corps regaining a position on the BOD (hardly a coup, IMO). I'm no G7 apologist, but I think "many" misrepresents what's been done until now.

To your point, though, I think Jeff said it well - the non-YEA corps will be a part of the selective screening of potential recruits at MiM shows, and can market themselves to the exclusion of the other 15 corps. But I think this is a bit of a red herring. The G7 corps now field mostly full corps today so, while they will be cherry-picking the best of the best from the MiM shows, there will still be tons o kids that try out for these corps and don't make it. Ideally, these potential MM will consider other corps as an entry to the activity instead of going home for the summer (and I would hope that, magnanimously, MiM would offer some info on other corps available to these kids instead of sitting at home). The fact is that MiM will get no more kids in their corps than the 150 DCI allows (as of now). They may get some of the best recruits, but there will still be tons of potential members available for other corps to go after.

I think the Top 7 corps of DCI, throughout most eras of DCI, have pretty much always cherry-picked the best of the best. It's the cyclical nature of a corps becomes at the top of the activity; top players want to march in the top corps; elite corps becomes consistently elite; top players consistently are attracted to marching w/elite corps. This marching band series of shows won't change that at all.

To me this seems at worst like another fundraising opportunity for the MiM organization: not a bad thing at all. At best it's an opportunity for bands to potentially do a one-off competition where they can get comments/input from some of the best designers and instructors (and judges) in the activity. This isn't necessarily competing with BOA (a circuit with regionals and a Championship) or any other circuit; unless I missed something this is a series of shows that will regionally line-up with home base of MiM corps, and I would guess that since most high school bands compete in a specific circuit, most schools who attend a MiM show will only attend one. The MiM groups will make money off of shows, HS students & staffers will get input from great judges, and MiM corps will get some more exposure at these shows. This is really not that big of a deal

[MikeD]

I think the Top 7 corps of DCI, throughout most eras of DCI, have pretty much always cherry-picked the best of the best. It's the cyclical nature of a corps becomes at the top of the activity; top players want to march in the top corps; elite corps becomes consistently elite; top players consistently are attracted to marching w/elite corps. This marching band series of shows won't change that at all.

To me this seems at worst like another fundraising opportunity for the MiM organization: not a bad thing at all. At best it's an opportunity for bands to potentially do a one-off competition where they can get comments/input from some of the best designers and instructors (and judges) in the activity. This isn't necessarily competing with BOA (a circuit with regionals and a Championship) or any other circuit; unless I missed something this is a series of shows that will regionally line-up with home base of MiM corps, and I would guess that since most high school bands compete in a specific circuit, most schools who attend a MiM show will only attend one. The MiM groups will make money off of shows, HS students & staffers will get input from great judges, and MiM corps will get some more exposure at these shows. This is really not that big of a deal

As for members...the average marching member of a G7 corps is in college, so hosting a few HS MB competitions is not going to radically alter the makeup of the G7 marching members. Might a player or two decide to try out for a G7 corps, or any other corps, after attending a MiM show? Maybe, esp if the recruitment booths are decent. My guess is that BD and SCV, with their lower corps, might benefit the most from a MiM show if it is local enough to their home bases. Cadets2 in DCA might draw a few potential members from the Annapolis show. IMO there would be little impact to the audition pool for for the rest of the corps.

Now...if there was a general DCI recruitment setup area at the shows...that might help market all of the corps, esp those outside the G7, to the Hs MB student population.