Not Excited - Boredom has Set in

[jjeffeory]

this is the way it goes. They really want modern corps to be labeled as marching band. But then push that all encompassing phraseology on old school corps (i.e. the corps they really like the most) they get all bent out of shape! Just shows that this debate is about far more than being "descriptive" but just another way to show their dissatisfaction with modern corps changes. Clearly to these people, marching band is bad word so best impose it on things they don't like just because they are bitter.

...but I like marching bands. I really do! I even posted a bunch of marching band videos a little while back on the Significance of the MiM regionals thread. So that's not what it is for me. I can't speak for everyone though.

[jjeffeory]

Shall the website be renamed then? Go to Marching Band Planet, or should we just keep the name the same because that's what the people running it want?

That site failed... or was turned off or whatever. Too bad really.

[Jeff Ream]

But Rush and ELP did not morph into a completely different entities. While they, as a rock bands, did perform with other types of ensembles, Alex, Geddy, and Niel as well as Kieth, Greg, and Carl still remained as separate rock bands merely performing with those other ensembles. That is why there is a conundrum going on in DCI because DCI corps are not merely performing with guest marching bands, they are ever so close to actually becoming the exact same instrumentation as high school marching bands.

if you go by the technical term of rock n roll from when it first launched, it was a drummer, a guitar player who may or may not have subng, another guitar player, and many of the bassists actually used string basses!

So...Rock continues to morph all the time. It varies from group to group. Just as drum corps may have used sopranos, mellos, baris and contras, some may have used sopranos, mellos, flugels, baris, contras etc.

remember drum corps didnt have contras in the beginning. To many when hawthorne debuted timbalis in the early 60's...oh my god! it's not covered in mylar! Then...oh my god...they added bells!

again, while i may not be in favor of all the changes and additions, the one thing that keeps it from truly morphing into something that already exists is woodwinds.

[fsubone]

That site failed... or was turned off or whatever. Too bad really.

I think it got shut down from lack of usage. But since a lot are pushing hard for DCI to be renamed as marching bands, would appear this site would need to become MBP.

[Jeff Ream]

A Rock Band that plays Classical pieces on occasion is not a Symphony Orchestra... no more than a Symphony Orchestra that plays on occasion Rock Music becomes a Rock Band. A musical unit is most aptly defined by what it generally utilizes in performances with instrumentation. As such, Lady Gaga is most appropriately and correctly identified as a lead singer Rocker, from the Rock Music ( or perhaps Pop Music ) world. Its her Bands instrumentation utilization that is utilized most commonly in her singing performances that principally defines her. The mere fact that on occasion she sits at a piano and performs a classical piece in performance, does not define her as a Concert Classical Pianist in a Symphony Orchestra by Profession. She's in fact a Singer in a Pop Music Band by Profession. ". Emerson, Lake and Palmer were indeed a Rock Band and not a Symphony Orchestra, despite the utilization of reworked Classical pieces in their musical performances on occasion. " I know, I know, I'm just using logic" here too......

but as shown before...rock bands have used a wide variety of instruments, accoustic and electric. ELp did full tours with orchestras ( love the Pictures live cd)

[Jeff Ream]

One could call ELP a Classical Music playing Trio, but of course this would be silly and ridiculous. ELP was a Progressive Rock Group. Their albums are correctly found in the Rock section of all music selling stores. Repeat.... ALL music stores. YOU might want and desire to put ELP in the Classical Music aisle, but no store will do it... and even the trustees of the ELP will not allow themselves to be included in the Classical Music section and realm. So no... we can not ( as you said ) ' just as easily call them a Classical Trio as a Rock Band ". Its just a bridge to far for you, imo to make this claim.

why would it be silly? because you said so?

when i go to the rock aisle in a cd store, I see covers of famous bands done by sting ensembles in the bins too

Edited March 26, 2014 by Jeff Ream

[Jeff Ream]

That is why BST was not, and is not, considered by most as being a 'rock band' but a type of non classified rock/fusion/jazz band. Same goes for Chicago, Tower of Power, etc... Ian Anderson did play flute as a solo instrument, but the main thrust of Tull instrumentation was standard rock instrumentation not winds and orchestral strings. While Maynard did perfom arrangements of some disco and rock charts in his jazz band, the actual configuration of his band instrumentation did not cause his ensemble to turn into a disco band. And same goes for ELP. Just because ELP played and 'arrangement' of Hoedown does not mean the ELP ensemble became a classical symphonic orchastra ensemble. Same goes for the Ellis ensemble on ocassion using instruments outside of the traditional jazz band.

odd.

go to a store, and all 3 of the bands you mention are in the rock bins, not jazz.

[Jeff Ream]

I realize this. But in my opinion, and in the opinion of others, the nomenclature no longer fits. They have mischaracterized themselves, imo. An Elvis Impersonator can hold himself out to be the real Elvis Presley... but such utterances, no matter how honestly held and believed by the Impersonator, does not make it so.

shh. Elvis is alive. we just don't know which impersonator he is

[jjeffeory]

No matter how many times people say this, it only adds one more time that they are frankly completely wrong. As mentioned above, lots of circuits before DCI set up separate divisions within their circuits. One for " Drum Corps " ... another for " Marching Band ". The DIvision was that... a " division "... one wholly for Drum Corps, the other for Marching Band. They were easily distinquishable and readily identifible. How ? Principally by instrumentations utilized. Were there any confusion back then within these circuits as to what constututed a " Drum Corps " and which constituted a " Marching Band " within thesse circuis, within its membership base, and within its fan bases ?. No. Never a single peep of complaint as near as I could tell. Not a single disagreement within these circuits as to what constituted a " Drum Corps " and what constituted a " Marching Band ". Even the judges could easily distinquish between the two, as many judged in both the separate divisions.. often on the same day, and often in the same show. So what can we learn from this ? Well, for starters, we can acknowledge for once that the often stated comment were often times hear that " Drum Corps have always been Marching Band " to be wrong... and that no amount of a feeble attempt to ignore history or recreate a revisionist history can deny the clear and observable historical fact that at one time " Drum Corps " were in fact decidedly not " Marching Band " and that circuits throughout the country and in Canada set up separate divisions for the distinctive two. Those are the facts. And no amount of a lack of understanding of Drum Corps history allows one to state that " Drum Corps has always been Marching Band", when historical, observable evidence clearly proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that such a statement is simply categorically false and fundamentally unhelpful to both rational dialogue and counter productive to educational enlightenment and knowledge.

I'm sure even a Venn Diagram would not be able to explain it to them, because logic doesn't matter.

All drum corps ARE marching bands, but not all marching bands ARE drum corps.

[Jeff Ream]

Like I posted to Guardling; apparently you have never been involved with planning a huge six-figure extravaganza type wedding where double checks by listening to the music or watching videos are not always the case due to a massive amount of information transpiring in a short amount of time; if they informed the wedding planner that they were a classical symphonic quartet and not a rock band, with references cited, then more than likely the planner would trust the references and move on to the multitude of other things . But you still avoided the question; would you accept their own classification as being correct and have them perform, or would you tell them to take a hike?

I'd save thousands and not have a planner and we'd plan it. Kinda like we did 10 years ago.