Stu Posted March 17, 2014 Author Share Posted March 17, 2014 (edited) Wow, that is bold, broad strokes. I assume you've talked to many DCI designers to get that opinion? I don't see much of that in marching band or WGI circuits (maybe some of the light show stuff) now so I suspect most designers in that world are OK pushing the limits a bit of current status quo. You mention insurance as a liability (both financial and health), but to implement all of that is a HUGE expense. Les Etoiles had the gravity-defying thing a season or two, but most corps didn't even mess around with that route after Les Etoiles showed how popular it was because of the logistical nightmares of hauling that stuff around. Even lighting rigs that bands and WGI groups have used in the recent seasons are EXTREMELY difficult to coordinate, with effects that may or may not be rewarding on the sheets (along with the effects not working = show is ruined and your score will likely tank). If you're saying designers' ultimate goals for the drum corps activity are elaborate, Disney-esque, pop-rock stadium show extravaganzas, I think that's an interesting stipulation & I'd be really interested in knowing specifically which of the many designers have explicitly said that sort of thing. Yes; if revenue was actually there to cover the logistics and insurance costs, and the rules were more open-ended, the elaborate extravagant Disney-esque, Orange Bowl-esque, Super Bowl Halftime-esque, fire breathing dragon, laser light show, giant liquid color filled tubes, would be attempted by design teams in WGI, BOA, and DCI. Out of respect to those I have spoken with during informal chats, and the respect of not quoting third party conversations, I can attest that these are desires by many marching arts instructors and designers I have spoken with. Think about it, if you were a marching arts visual designer or instructor and the question was posed to you, “If you had unlimited resources and BOA, WGI, DCI had rather open-ended rules, what would you design as a show concept?”, how would you answer? Edited March 17, 2014 by Stu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted March 17, 2014 Author Share Posted March 17, 2014 (edited) Double Post Edited March 17, 2014 by Stu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Freedman Posted March 17, 2014 Share Posted March 17, 2014 This is not a one-drop issue because many things can be cited about Gaga other than just the vomit, and many, many artists can be cited within her same level of performance presentation. Moreover, what was allowed to be presented on stage at Cabaret Voltaire, and other Dada venues, would more than likely make the Gaga blush; her antics are pale in comparison to many of the things done on those stages (if we discussed the actual behavior that was being exhibited on the Dada stages we would get booted from DCP). And I am sure that there are forms of marriage counseling going on at the Bunny Ranch, just like there were some forms of non-offensive art being performed at the Cabaret Voltaire. But that does not mean they are not/were not still engaging in depravity; again, it just means they are comfortable in accepting the depravity as perceived righteousness. Wrong, because neither Lady Gaga nor popular music in general, nor performance art nor the Cabaret Voltaire specifically were obscene or debauched in general. Your continuing summary of these things as essentially debauched because they tolerate occasional debauchery is the one drop rule in action. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted March 17, 2014 Author Share Posted March 17, 2014 Wrong, because neither Lady Gaga nor popular music in general, nor performance art nor the Cabaret Voltaire specifically were obscene or debauched in general. Your continuing summary of these things as essentially debauched because they tolerate occasional debauchery is the one drop rule in action. The 'general attitude' at Cabaret Voltaire, and the entire Dada movement for that matter, was the allowance for an anything goes, and I mean anything goes atmosphere with no artistic restrictions (other than maybe actual murder, actual rape, or other acts of violence which would actually hurt or kill another human). And by the Dada innovators’ setting no artistic boundaries whatsoever it certainly was a tacit endorsement of some of the vilest things which have ever appeared on stage. Same ‘general attitude’ goes for modern performance artists from Lenny Bruce to the Gaga; along with those who follow and promote their behaviors. So no; I am not wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garfield Posted March 17, 2014 Share Posted March 17, 2014 The 'general attitude' at Cabaret Voltaire, and the entire Dada movement for that matter, was the allowance for an anything goes, and I mean anything goes atmosphere with no artistic restrictions (other than maybe actual murder, actual rape, or other acts of violence which would actually hurt or kill another human). And by the Dada innovators’ setting no artistic boundaries whatsoever it certainly was a tacit endorsement of some of the vilest things which have ever appeared on stage. Same ‘general attitude’ goes for modern performance artists from Lenny Bruce to the Gaga; along with those who follow and promote their behaviors. So no; I am not wrong. From Wiki: According to Hans Richter Dada was not art: it was "anti-art."[4] Dada represented the opposite of everything which art stood for. Where art was concerned with traditional aesthetics, Dada ignored aesthetics. If art was to appeal to sensibilities, Dada was intended to offend. Seems a little antithetical to our medium of performance art, it seems to me. Also this: Some died in death camps under Adolf Hitler,[citation needed] who persecuted the kind of "Degenerate art" that Dada represented. And finally, this: Dada was born out of negative reaction to the horrors of World War I. A noble cause, no? I know Wiki is the definitive authority on all things internets (/sarcasm) but, in truth, I'm just baiting Stu because his sucking up bandwidth is preventing the North Korean's from launching their missiles at us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CCorps Posted March 18, 2014 Share Posted March 18, 2014 The only way people should be responding to Stu's claims is to be ironic. Can we all agree this is totally off the deep end? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted March 18, 2014 Share Posted March 18, 2014 Isn't that a quote by Caligula when he reigned as Emperor? not in the Mitchell Brothers version Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted March 18, 2014 Share Posted March 18, 2014 Many of those who created the Dada movement at the Cabaret Voltaire are a bunch of dead guys; many of those who started the Beat Movement are dead; DCI show concepts have recently celebrated both of those movements. Many of those who started modern performance art down the path the Gaga is currently on are also dead; and many who post here on DCP would love to see a corps present a Gaga type show. So yeah, I suppose it is wise for me to just relax and let things progress without questioning where both performance art and DCI may be headed. Stu look......these are guys who have been threatening to leave for 4 years...yet they're still here. BD really is the only corps that likes to go out on that limb...I don't see this being widespread. Hell people thought Bayonne was way out of line in 76. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted March 18, 2014 Share Posted March 18, 2014 Point being is that it was a liability decision not an artistic decision. If DCI ever gets enough revenue stream to cover the huge increase in insurance premiums I suspect the rules would be changed to accommodate any and all artistic endeavors. The idea of a DCI corps extravaganza combining all of the elaborate elements of Madonna, Michael Jackson, ZZ Top, Lady Gaga, Kiss, Rolling Stones, Led Zeppelin, Van Halen, the Fire, the Smoke, the Video, the Props, all combined are most certainly a dream for many if not most designers in DCI. to be honest, many DCi designers make fun of all of your examples. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Freedman Posted March 18, 2014 Share Posted March 18, 2014 The 'general attitude' at Cabaret Voltaire, and the entire Dada movement for that matter, was the allowance for an anything goes, and I mean anything goes atmosphere with no artistic restrictions (other than maybe actual murder, actual rape, or other acts of violence which would actually hurt or kill another human). And by the Dada innovators’ setting no artistic boundaries whatsoever it certainly was a tacit endorsement of some of the vilest things which have ever appeared on stage. Same ‘general attitude’ goes for modern performance artists from Lenny Bruce to the Gaga; along with those who follow and promote their behaviors. So no; I am not wrong. You say that like it's a bad thing. In general, Dada art was not disgusting or obscene. So it would have been highly inaccurate for BD to depict it as such. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts