fsubone Posted March 16, 2014 Share Posted March 16, 2014 This is not baiting because many on DCP have uplifted ‘performance art’ as the direction they see fit for DCI; and they have uplifted the Gaga as being a great leader of ‘performance art’. And while I may not hang with the Pope, I do have the desire to stay out of the gutter unless there is a busted sewer pipe that needs fixed. So, since you question my use of the words perversion and debauchery, instead of attacking my position in drive-by manner please describe all the positive aspects of the behaviors in which I am referring. Because they're not perversions and debauchery to everyone? You may not like it, but clearly someone out there does, or else it wouldn't be selling. You can assert your position without trying to make yourself seem like an enlightened elitist looking down your nose. And DCI is pretty much a performance art. People are performing live, correct? And music is art, so therefore DCI is a performance art. Yes, there are many sub-genres to performance art, some more extreme than others, but DCI still falls under the umbrella term. I haven't seen these posts you're alluding to where many say Lady Gaga is a leader and something we should all emulate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie1223 Posted March 16, 2014 Share Posted March 16, 2014 There have been many discussions concerning DCI, and the activity itself, should not stagnate but actually be at the forefront of what our culture is celebrating as Performance Art. Well here is the performance art direction our culture has seen fit to progress toward: enjoy yall, enjoy (link). And for all of you DCI and WGI designers out there who are in the camp of 'progress not stagnate', please, by all means, please place this wonderful progression of our culture, and it's performance art, within DCI and WGI programs in the near future. What a single famous person decided to have done to themselves cannot be considered the direction of our culture. /thread 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lincoln Posted March 16, 2014 Share Posted March 16, 2014 It's puke, she's puke, she likes puke, and she doesn't mind having her best friends puke on her. That statement alone cracked me up. I can see it on the cover of a book or on a t-shirt. You should copyright it as soon as you can! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted March 16, 2014 Author Share Posted March 16, 2014 (edited) Because they're not perversions and debauchery to everyone? You may not like it, but clearly someone out there does, or else it wouldn't be selling. You can assert your position without trying to make yourself seem like an enlightened elitist looking down your nose. You are correct; those actions are not considered to be perversions and debauchery ‘by everyone’. But to say they are engaging in behavior such as pretending to have sex with an animal, or having someone actually vomit on them, is something other than depraved perversion; well that needs some defensive clarification. All you have done is still attack my position instead of defending yours. So, how are the actions and behaviors done by the Gaga something other than degenerate corruption? Edited March 16, 2014 by Stu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fsubone Posted March 16, 2014 Share Posted March 16, 2014 You are correct; those actions are not considered to be perversions and debauchery ‘by everyone’. But to say they are engaging in behavior such as pretending to have sex with an animal, or having someone actually vomit on them, is something other than depraved perversion; well that needs some defensive clarification. All you have done is still attack my position instead of defending yours. So, how are the actions and behaviors done by the Gaga something other than degenerate corruption? Because we have something in this country called free speech and expression? The Supreme Court is usually the one in charge of deciding what is considered art, and if they don't agree with it, they shut it down. They have said that this is okay, so therefore, it is not degenerate corruption. Unless you're a Supreme Court justice, it's not your job to decide what is depravity for other people. That's my clarification and defending my own position, not attacking yours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted March 16, 2014 Author Share Posted March 16, 2014 What a single famous person decided to have done to themselves cannot be considered the direction of our culture. /thread Again this is not just a single issue done by a single performer. It is indicative of the collective behaviors issues done by many, many, many performers, and the culture which is following. Performance Art is a classification of a particular art form; if you do not know the history of the term please do some research. And modern Performance Artists, along with the people who follow them, are all diving lower and lower into the self-indulgent world of guttural shock instead of lifting their eyes, ears, and spirits up toward the heavens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie1223 Posted March 16, 2014 Share Posted March 16, 2014 The performance art 'trend' is not specifically the vomit. The trend is the extreme behavior shown by many of the current modern performance artists to outdo each other on being disgraceful, shocking, outrageous, reprehensible, appalling, dreadful, ... all in the name of narcissistic voracity as opposed to creating performances to enhance the inner magnificence of musical art. Somehow the tide of performance art has turned from being a craft intended to raise people and their spirit to a higher plateau over to diving into the gutter and pulling people and their spirit down with them. Stefani Germanotta attended the NYU Tisch School of Music and was/is an extraordinary pianist. She could have chosen the artistic path to enhance the creative beauty within the historical line of Bach, to Van Cliburn, to Liz Story, but she decided instead to create the alter ego of Lady Gaga. Of course she is free to make that choice; and she is free to continue down the path she is on as Gaga; and she is free to cash in on her own narcissistic voracity. But what this shows is that she is not only able to receive that narcissistic gratification via media exposure, but also receive that gratification through the millions and millions of fans she can appeal to with her Gaga behavior. One may attempt to point out that Gaga has also created the Born This Way Foundation in the name of charity. But all one needs to do is look at the title and deep meaning of the foundation to realize Gaga, not Germanotta, but Gaga is telling youth via her performance art, via her foundation bus tour, via her vocal and behavior messages, that if you were 'born to be vomited on' that is not only ok but something to be celebrated. And my point of viewing this in the light of an activity such as DCI is that many who are involved with the creative framework of corps within DCI not only agree with but partake of the type of performance exhibited not only by Gaga but also many others in our culture who dive into that world of performance gutter behavior. And because of that innate taste for the guttural aspects of performance art by many within the marching arts it will most certainly have an underlying effect on the future artistic direction of DCI and WGI; maybe not specifically using actual vomit any time soon in DCI show concept designs, but they will move the artistic concepts slowly down the path of the sewer instead of the clouds. Why? Because you are what you consume. You are really over thinking this Gaga thing. Are we supposed to be shameful of ourselves because someone performed in vomit? Why? That this single act is some how the epitome of everything wrong with the progression of art and culture. Is this to presuppose that no other person in the history of culture had ever done anything as shocking/disgusting in the name of art? I can only think that you brining this up because you are worried that DCI will do a show that you personally find morally repugnant. this leap from lady gaga vomit to the fracturing of artistic morality in DCI is a real stretch... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HornTeacher Posted March 16, 2014 Share Posted March 16, 2014 (edited) Because we have something in this country called free speech and expression? The Supreme Court is usually the one in charge of deciding what is considered art, and if they don't agree with it, they shut it down. They have said that this is okay, so therefore, it is not degenerate corruption. Unless you're a Supreme Court justice, it's not your job to decide what is depravity for other people. That's my clarification and defending my own position, not attacking yours. There also existed in this country at one time a maxim of "The rule of the reasonable man." You are right -- any action that is not expressly forbidden by law immediately becomes "legal" (in a purely black and white world, anything not deemed expressly illegal, becomes, either by definition or conversely, legal). However, we cannot be expected to rewrite our laws at a precise moment that someone (or several hundred, thousand, or millions of someones) deems such action necessary. Even if this could possibly happen, do you think that with partisanship we see in everyday discussions among our lawmakers this would be remotely possible? Again, to the shock of many (and even more so to Stu himself, I'm sure), I have to side with him on this one.. Edited March 16, 2014 by HornTeacher Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie1223 Posted March 16, 2014 Share Posted March 16, 2014 (edited) You are correct; those actions are not considered to be perversions and debauchery by everyone. But to say they are engaging in behavior such as pretending to have sex with an animal, or having someone actually vomit on them, is something other than depraved perversion; well that needs some defensive clarification. All you have done is still attack my position instead of defending yours. So, how are the actions and behaviors done by the Gaga something other than degenerate corruption?At onetime selling your daughter for cattle was not degenerative. At another time gay marriage is sometimes still seen as degenerative. At onetime painting anything other than Christian symbolism was degenerative art. In another, depicting Mohammad is seen as degenerative. Because I now know that you believe in an absolute truth I'm wondering how your perspective on the absolute morality of art is defined and why that has been defined in that why. (Or how you have managed to decide was is and isn't degenerate corruption?) Because I am more on relative morals rather than absolute your concern or issue doesn't phase me. Edited March 16, 2014 by charlie1223 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted March 16, 2014 Author Share Posted March 16, 2014 Because we have something in this country called free speech and expression? The Supreme Court is usually the one in charge of deciding what is considered art, and if they don't agree with it, they shut it down. They have said that this is okay, so therefore, it is not degenerate corruption. Unless you're a Supreme Court justice, it's not your job to decide what is depravity for other people. That's my clarification and defending my own position, not attacking yours. The Supreme Court has maintained that we are a free society; that for the most part Government cannot stifle free speech; and that art, however it is presented, falls into that free speech area as long as it is only adults involved. But I have yet to read a Supreme Court decision which defines any free speech as debauchery or righteous. The Court has actually left those decisions up to, wait for it, us in society to define. By the way, you still have not defended the position that the behaviors done by the Gaga are something other than perverted depravity. All you have done is throw out some theoretical construct about the Supreme Court. Come on; defend the actions of Miley Cyrus sexually twerking with a large stuffed bear or Gaga having someone vomit on her while on stage in front of the audience as being ‘righteous’ as opposed to ‘depraved’. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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