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The Progression of Performance Art in DCI


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Ok, since you contend that it is relative to each person, and we should respect that as being the case, I will ask the same question to you as I did to Charlie1223: If 'society' gets to the point of accepting the organization Jeff Ream wants me to not name, will you still hold true to your moral relativity if they bring that behavior into the world of performance art? Or is there a point, which may be in a different spot than mine, but is there a point where you will stand for some sort of moral absolute in the realm of performance art?

Am I being forced to watch it and participate in it? If yes, then I'll find a line. If not, don't care. It's not my business what rocks someone's world. I'm 98% sure we'll never see vomit used as a show device, outside of Madison 2011 (accidental as that was). If there's something else you're driving at, coy suggestions don't really help. There's a lot of art I don't enjoy or understand, but I don't go to those museums are start proclaiming that it's debauchery. I just avoid that museum on an art tour.

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And as I pointed out earlier, "performance art" doesn't just mean people puking on each other. DCI is a performance art, since it's music being performed in public. The CSO is performance art, Oscar winning films are performance art, it isn't just what you want for your weird argument.

Again, please provide some hard evidence that DCI is going in this direction so that people will be puking on each other as a part of a show design.

And as I pointed out earlier, actual 'vomiting' may not appear in DCI show concept designs anytime in the near future. However, to see the evidence designs are slowly going in the direction of following the lead of pushing the shocking, outrageous, guttural 'performance art' direction all you have to do is research what went on at the actual Cabaret Voltaire and within the Dada movement. Do you not know what was actually celebrated and performed at the real Cabaret Voltaire?

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And as I pointed out earlier, actual 'vomiting' may not appear in DCI show concept designs anytime in the near future. However, to see the evidence designs are slowly going in the direction of following the lead of pushing the shocking, outrageous, guttural 'performance art' direction all you have to do is research what went on at the actual Cabaret Voltaire and within the Dada movement. Do you not know what was actually celebrated and performed at the real Cabaret Voltaire?

I do, but I don't remember any of that being portrayed in BD's show. Boston did Core of Temptation in 2009, but they didn't have any illicit activities in that show. VK had implied sex in 1992, were people up in arms about that? Phantom has had stylized murder the last few years, and I'm not seeing the torches and pitchforks.

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Am I being forced to watch it and participate in it? If yes, then I'll find a line. If not, don't care. It's not my business what rocks someone's world. I'm 98% sure we'll never see vomit used as a show device, outside of Madison 2011 (accidental as that was). If there's something else you're driving at, coy suggestions don't really help. There's a lot of art I don't enjoy or understand, but I don't go to those museums are start proclaiming that it's debauchery. I just avoid that museum on an art tour.

I concede that there are many things you are not 'forced' to watch or 'forced' to engage in; and I also concede that many behaviors, especially in other countries, are legal. But I am also positive that there are certain behaviors people exhibited in places where those behaviors are legal in which even you would find to be sickening yet they find them as being moral. Or are you saying that you respect and accept 'any and all’ behavior as long as: a) you are not ‘forced’ to engage in it, and b) their behavior is both legal and personally defined as being moral to that society? Be careful how you answer, because there are countries and societies which accept behavior way beyond the pale of what is accepted in the United States.

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I concede that there are many things you are not 'forced' to watch or 'forced' to engage in; and I also concede that many behaviors, especially in other countries, are legal. But I am also positive that there are certain behaviors people exhibited in places where those behaviors are legal in which even you would find to be sickening yet they find them as being moral. Or are you saying that you respect and accept 'any and all’ behavior as long as: a) you are not ‘forced’ to engage in it, and b) their behavior is both legal and personally defined as being moral to that society? Be careful how you answer, because there are countries and societies which accept behavior way beyond the pale of what is accepted in the United States.

Yes I do. Anyone else's personal life and what they do is of no business to me. If someone wants to dump a can on paint on themselves and run at a canvas, that's their thing. If someone wants to get puked on, as long as they're not asking me to take part, that's fine for them. If it doesn't personally impede on my life or ability to make my own choices, then more power to them. It's not my job to dictate how other people live their lives, just how I live my own.

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I do, but I don't remember any of that being portrayed in BD's show. Boston did Core of Temptation in 2009, but they didn't have any illicit activities in that show. VK had implied sex in 1992, were people up in arms about that? Phantom has had stylized murder the last few years, and I'm not seeing the torches and pitchforks.

True in that Boston’s ‘Core’ did not utilize actual sex, and also true that the BD show did not go far into presenting real Dada. But the celebration of temptation of sex and the celebration of what occurred at the real Cabaret Voltaire were presented in a positive light. All of which points to show concept designs moving into the direction of celebrating the gutter instead of rejoicing the heavens; and it is being implemented, and accepted, slowly within the realm of DCI in an incremental manner.

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True in that Boston’s ‘Core’ did not utilize actual sex, and also true that the BD show did not go far into presenting real Dada. But the celebration of temptation of sex and the celebration of what occurred at the real Cabaret Voltaire were presented in a positive light. All of which points to show concept designs moving into the direction of celebrating the gutter instead of rejoicing the heavens; and it is being implemented, and accepted, slowly within the realm of DCI in an incremental manner.

Those are isolated examples though. You've got Phantom's "Into the Light" in 2010, Cadets Angels winning in 2011, SCV escaping Hell into paradise in 2011, the princess defeating the evil witch in 2013, Spartacus rising up against his oppressors in 2008, BD taking flight in 2007, Faust defeating the Devil in 2006, Scherehezade escaping the Sultan in 2004, I can continue giving examples. A few negative examples does not a trend make.

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Yes I do. Anyone else's personal life and what they do is of no business to me. If someone wants to dump a can on paint on themselves and run at a canvas, that's their thing. If someone wants to get puked on, as long as they're not asking me to take part, that's fine for them. If it doesn't personally impede on my life or ability to make my own choices, then more power to them. It's not my job to dictate how other people live their lives, just how I live my own.

Let me make sure you are clear. So you accept the social behavior in both art and culture which is going on in Thailand and other countries, which allow a certain type of behavior we in the United States not only find appalling but carry with it up to life imprisonment. That to you this behavior is acceptable as long as you are not forced to engage and it is legal in those countries. Correct?

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Those are isolated examples though. You've got Phantom's "Into the Light" in 2010, Cadets Angels winning in 2011, SCV escaping Hell into paradise in 2011, the princess defeating the evil witch in 2013, Spartacus rising up against his oppressors in 2008, BD taking flight in 2007, Faust defeating the Devil in 2006, Scherehezade escaping the Sultan in 2004, I can continue giving examples. A few negative examples does not a trend make.

Again, I said it is 'slowly and incrementally' becoming more and more accepted; not that is has been a huge altering of the activity in short order.

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Let me make sure you are clear. So you accept the social behavior in both art and culture which is going on in Thailand and other countries, which allow a certain type of behavior we in the United States not only find appalling but carry with it up to life imprisonment. That to you this behavior is acceptable as long as you are not forced to engage and it is legal in those countries. Correct?

Is it legal in that country? Does it personally effect me? Is it deemed acceptable in that country? If so, people's decision to partake in said acts is between them and their own higher power, not me. I have no interest in ever going to Thailand, so I don't plan on being apart of said activities. I don't have to agree with it, but I'm more interested in living my own life and making my own decisions instead of trying to dictate what someone else does.

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