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Thought it might be a good idea to crank-up a new discussion generator, given that 2014 scores are still pretty far off. First of all, I agree with a recent observation by corpsband in the 'Bored' thread that reaction to the approval of any brass instrument in DCI was unusually heavy. I'm not surprised by the outrage, yet believe the outrage isn't really over trombones. Distaste for possible Sousaphones, maybe, but not really trombones.

The recent outrage is more symbolic. It represents a great fear of the unknown, a threat of one's comfort zone, and disturbance from changes that are coming too rapidly for many, myself included. Well, buckle-up . . . .

WOODWINDS ARE JUST DOWN THE ROAD!

Why not? The table has been set. You'll need to decide if this will be a positive addition. I won't like it, but I am convinced we'll see this inside of five years. The reasons for this development are many.

1. This activity is about creating opportunities for youthful musicians. What music educator would deny casting a wider net? Seemingly, musicians of a different type automatically means a new layer of ticket buyers, too.

2. Corps Directors need a continually enlarging flow of auditioners. The try-out fees and resultant additional charges from successful candidates are essential.

3. Instructors need to broaden the market for their skills, and open new opportunities. Many of these adults are multi-talented, don't you think?

4. Music instrument manufacturers are fully onboard. 'Nuff said.

5. SoundSport is designed to experiment and facilitate this more inclusive mission. Maybe SoundSport is just a 'toe in the water.'

6. Separate traditional marching band organizers (like BOA) are functioning nicely, but remain a challenge for DCI decisionmakers to improve. There is crossover interaction happening in the same city.

7. To survive, drum corps types need more universal approval, acceptance, and clean access into music departments of all stripes. Who needs limits in this regard?

8. In a difficult economy, a duplication of management and promotional efforts is costly. Maybe two can live almost as cheaply as one.

Besides, in the end, it's all just marching band anyway. Right?

:smile:

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I found a picture of the first-ever drum corps! But Brasso, I'm afraid I have some bad news for you!

Thought it might be a good idea to crank-up a new discussion generator, given that 2014 scores are still pretty far off. First of all, I agree with a recent observation by corpsband in the 'Bored' t

Well, if they were actually clean, that'd help... On the flip side Crown did pretty well with a rock show, Cadets made Top 3 with a Christmas show and SCV did well with a mainstream literal translati

Sadly, I can't disagree. There are no arguments against woodwinds that can be mustered that haven't already been addressed and dismissed concerning amplification, electronics and brass. It's coming - it's just a matter of when.

Mike

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If they stick to the 150 person limit, they would have to drastically cut down the number of brass players on the field in order to maintain musical balance between brass and woodwinds. I don't see that happening.

Which would mean raising the member limit. To what? Should it be no holds barred? Let's say they cap it off at 220. Now we're talking about these drum corps, many of whom are barely able to maintain financial operations as it is, adding a whole lot in terms of operational costs to their yearly budgets. Adding buses (and FUEL), adding food, adding musical equipment, adding uniforms, possibly adding another equipment trailer to lug all this stuff around, adding instructional staff, adding volunteers, insurance costs, etc.

I realize that the prospect of woodwinds seems inevitable, but I just don't think too many corps will be willing to add that kind of expense. And sponsorship won't take care of it all. If DCI somehow manages to secure a circuit-wide deal with a transportation company who will supply an entire fleet of quality buses to every corps, then maybe I could see it happening. But I don't see that taking place.

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I'm not so sure. Upkeep on woodwind instruments is SIGNIFICANTLY more complicated than upkeep of brass. Weather conditions, even a minor amount of humidity (let alone rain) could devastate any woodwind instruments (cork, pads, etc). WW's would essentially not be able to rehearse in any sort of inclement weather (i.e. drizzle, high humidity, etc). I think while adding timbres of woodwinds, or the "lets include everybody" mentality arguments might be appealing to directors, I would think adding them in any significant way to DCI would be too cost-prohibitive. Perhaps minimal woodwind instrumentation used as soloist or small ensemble moments could be effective and financially viable, but the cost to add full-on woodwind sections to corps would be very high, I would think.

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I'm not so sure. Upkeep on woodwind instruments is SIGNIFICANTLY more complicated than upkeep of brass. Weather conditions, even a minor amount of humidity (let alone rain) could devastate any woodwind instruments (cork, pads, etc). WW's would essentially not be able to rehearse in any sort of inclement weather (i.e. drizzle, high humidity, etc). I think while adding timbres of woodwinds, or the "lets include everybody" mentality arguments might be appealing to directors, I would think adding them in any significant way to DCI would be too cost-prohibitive. Perhaps minimal woodwind instrumentation used as soloist or small ensemble moments could be effective and financially viable, but the cost to add full-on woodwind sections to corps would be very high, I would think.

This is a huge hurdle to implementing the use of woodwinds in a drum corps. You drop a tuba... well, grab a drum stick and roll out the bell. You drop a saxophone...

... and one of those stupid pads knocks loose...

... and you have to break out the shelak and blow torch to reseat the pad...

.... ugh...

However, this isn't really a hurdle to pass the actual rule (designers want all the options... doesn't necessarily mean they have to think through all the logistics). I think Fred is right about passage, but I doubt corps will want to deal with the hassle. I think the mic'd solo usage of woodwinds is the only sustainable option, acoustically and financially.

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Thought it might be a good idea to crank-up a new discussion generator, given that 2014 scores are still pretty far off. First of all, I agree with a recent observation by corpsband in the 'Bored' thread that reaction to the approval of any brass instrument in DCI was unusually heavy. I'm not surprised by the outrage, yet believe the outrage isn't really over trombones. Distaste for possible Sousaphones, maybe, but not really trombones.

The recent outrage is more symbolic. It represents a great fear of the unknown, a threat of one's comfort zone, and disturbance from changes that are coming too rapidly for many, myself included. Well, buckle-up . . . .

WOODWINDS ARE JUST DOWN THE ROAD!

Why not? The table has been set. You'll need to decide if this will be a positive addition. I won't like it, but I am convinced we'll see this inside of five years. The reasons for this development are many.

1. This activity is about creating opportunities for youthful musicians. What music educator would deny casting a wider net? Seemingly, musicians of a different type automatically means a new layer of ticket buyers, too.

2. Corps Directors need a continually enlarging flow of auditioners. The try-out fees and resultant additional charges from successful candidates are essential.

3. Instructors need to broaden the market for their skills, and open new opportunities. Many of these adults are multi-talented, don't you think?

4. Music instrument manufacturers are fully onboard. 'Nuff said.

5. SoundSport is designed to experiment and facilitate this more inclusive mission. Maybe SoundSport is just a 'toe in the water.'

6. Separate traditional marching band organizers (like BOA) are functioning nicely, but remain a challenge for DCI decisionmakers to improve. There is crossover interaction happening in the same city.

7. To survive, drum corps types need more universal approval, acceptance, and clean access into music departments of all stripes. Who needs limits in this regard?

8. In a difficult economy, a duplication of management and promotional efforts is costly. Maybe two can live almost as cheaply as one.

Besides, in the end, it's all just marching band anyway. Right?

:smile:

My thoughts on corpsband's post: http://goo.gl/ZY2Ntw

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Sadly, I can't disagree. There are no arguments against woodwinds that can be mustered that haven't already been addressed and dismissed concerning amplification, electronics and brass. It's coming - it's just a matter of when.

Mike

i dunno. i think there will be far more resistance to ww's. but if they do pass...

ww's will follow the same path as voice. people will try it, realize the problems, and mostly give up on it.

ww's aren't practical for a touring corps. and the realities of ensemble balance will limit their use to being mic'd in the pit.

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Besides, in the end, it's all just marching band anyway. Right?

:smile:

Yes. The same way it's always been. The same thing we are and have always been to the rest of the world. A bunch of kids marching around on a field playing things, hitting drums, spinning things, and wearing funny uniforms. Usually with strange hats on.

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Yes. The same way it's always been. The same thing we are and have always been to the rest of the world. A bunch of kids marching around on a field playing things, hitting drums, spinning things, and wearing funny uniforms. Usually with strange hats on.

:dancin:

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I'm not so sure. Upkeep on woodwind instruments is SIGNIFICANTLY more complicated than upkeep of brass. Weather conditions, even a minor amount of humidity (let alone rain) could devastate any woodwind instruments (cork, pads, etc). WW's would essentially not be able to rehearse in any sort of inclement weather (i.e. drizzle, high humidity, etc). I think while adding timbres of woodwinds, or the "lets include everybody" mentality arguments might be appealing to directors, I would think adding them in any significant way to DCI would be too cost-prohibitive. Perhaps minimal woodwind instrumentation used as soloist or small ensemble moments could be effective and financially viable, but the cost to add full-on woodwind sections to corps would be very high, I would think.

This is very true. Weather is AWFUL on woodwinds. But why would you need a whole section when say a mic'ed quintet would suffice? It's already marching band on the DCI circuit, I say just do it and be done.

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