The Inevitable Woodwind

[MikeD]

I guess I don't see why inclusion of woodwinds is inevitable. I don't think there is a similar website to DCP regarding youth symphony orchestras, but if there were, there would not be discussions about adding banjos to the orchestra because they are inevitable. They would endorse their identity and would not insist that a saxophone be used in a piece by Mozart or remove the string section from the orchestra when playing a piece by Barber to accommodate more trumpets. There's nothing wrong with distinctions in musical groups. Distinctions in sports works well, why not music.

Regarding including more opportunities for musicians by allowing woodwinds, twenty of the twenty two WC corps are not having serious recruitment issues if their Facebook pages are to be believed, and of the two that do seem to have some challenges, one of them voted against changing the instrumentation to include all brass.

Including woodwinds would not be innovative or a natural innovation either. Woodwinds and bands are not new inventions.

The only way to settle whether woodwinds belong in drum corps is to have a separate summer band circuit similar to DCI corps that want woodwinds could join this circuit. Fans could show which group they support by attending shows.

I don't really see it as inevitable either, at least in the short term. However, I don't agree with your example about orchestras and banjos, either as it relates to drum corps and WW. But...that is because IMO drum corps is marching band, and since DCI has chosen to align itself with scholastic music programs, to leave WW out of the mix is more the odd thing in this day and age, at least IMO.

As for the last statement...no, that is not the ONLY way. DCI adding a division that permits WW is another option.

[Fran Haring]

The sound of the micced instrument depends on the setup you have, and how well you use it. I know when we used a micced English Horn soloist in the band I teach, it took a while to get the mix and sound the way we wanted it. Same applied to the electric cello we used over two years. The first year I don't think we ever got the sound exactly as desired in the "Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon" show. We got it much better the second year in "Sweeney Todd".

That did sound great when I heard it at the show in Annapolis!!!

[Daave]

I believe that something else should be considered with respect to the adding of expense discussion.

A year or so ago there was talk of the “7” and wanting to move the number of those performing to 200+. There was discussion then about the costs. (Bus leases, food expenses, additional insurance liabilities, additional staff, additional instruments, additional vehicles and the fuel and maintenance with that, etc.)

From what I have heard, Hopkins was heard to say in the room after the recent passing of the brass rule, words to the effect of “next year it will be woodwinds.” That notwithstanding, the combination of the two (wind instruments and personnel) would not necessarily mean that the additional bodies and instrumentation would be woodwinds based. I suspect that the addition of guard and more brass would be the goal (as the some have pointed out recently in the discussions about the visual aspect of the activity). The expense issue still remains. This brings me to another point.

Most of those that wish these changes are not always the ones with the fiduciary responsibilities incumbent with the bylaws of a 501© (3) organization. The boards of directors of those organizations are.

Last year, the Board of the Boston Crusaders extended an invitation to members of all of the Boards of DCI corps to meet and discuss best practices as it applied to the activity and to share ideas from the fiduciary responsibility of their situations. I spoke with two people who attended and at that meeting; many of these board members had no idea what had transpired only a few months before with regard to the demands of the “7” at the time. Few knew of MiM, and fewer still had heard of the Troopers response to that power play.

This group has agreed to meet again this year to discuss best practices. One can only hope that these discussions regarding their fiduciary responsibilities might steer this discussion. As I recall from the 990’s thread from last year, only two corps are truly in any position to do anything other than maintain at this point and adding another bus, woodwinds, insurance, staff, food, fuel, vehicles (you name it) is not going to change those numbers no matter how it might be presented or cloaked.

Just my thoughts.

[perc2100]

It's a nice thought, and a running joke that's been around since I've been involved with the activity. I can understand the problems people have had with rule changes, but every one I've seen has had a reason or hasn't been too far fetched. Amplification of the pit? Sure. Adding more brass instruments? Makes sense. But adding something that neither came from drum or bugle doesn't seem viable to me.

No kidding; I vaguely remember in the early/mid-90's rumors that Cadets were going to leave DCI and start a circuit/unit with no prohibited instrumentation - i.e. woodwinds.

[Rifuarian]

Woodwinds are hardly inevitable. At least if by woodwinds we're talking about full blown marching clarinet, flute, and saxophone sections. Such a change would be far, far, far more difficult and expensive to implement than any key, electronics, A&E, etc.

[Jeff Ream]

No kidding; I vaguely remember in the early/mid-90's rumors that Cadets were going to leave DCI and start a circuit/unit with no prohibited instrumentation - i.e. woodwinds.

but he can't afford it despite the bluster

[cixelsyd]

Even though tesmusic gave me a thorough explanation of the woodwind challenges, those challenges have somehow been met by high school, college, and other sophisticated groups who perform outdoors. What do they know to make it work? MikeD, as a traditional band director, please add your own comments as to why clarinets, and such, continue outdoors with so many other groups, despite the difficulties.

Because "marching band" is literally that - taking whatever is in your pre-existing school music program and putting it out on the field. For whatever reason, American scholastic music has gravitated toward the band format, so that is what most marching ensembles field as well. But some schools also have orchestra, vocal music, piano, electronics, etc., and we have seen such devices included in marching band shows too (despite the difficulties).

[perc2100]

but he can't afford it despite the bluster

That's certainly true, but I always thought he never did it because he knows that Cadets NEED DCI. Being 10-time World Champions and perennial contenders only happens if you're in DCI competing against everyone.

But money is also a huge factor. When Star left DCI and showed the activity the blueprint on how to be viable, if not outright successful, as a non-competing organization, I assume no one followed because the heart of that blueprint = a HUGE benefactor.

And I also wonder if those organizations would lose alumni/fan financial support/donations straying too far from the activity.

And it's also interesting that Blast! and Brass Theater were successful enough to spawn world tours over a decade later while still utilizing what is essentially 2014 instrumentation. Woodwinds, however, never took off.

That, on top of the myriad of logistical problems w/woodwinds already mentioned, suggest wide-spread woodwind use is certainly NOT inevitable anytime soon.

[Fran Haring]

But money is also a huge factor. When Star left DCI and showed the activity the blueprint on how to be viable, if not outright successful, as a non-competing organization, I assume no one followed because the heart of that blueprint = a HUGE benefactor.

And an incredibly smart, savvy businessman.

Not that George, or any of the other DCI directors, don't have business smarts... but Bill Cook was a notch or ten above. IMO, of course.

[perc2100]

Correct, Tim!

Even though tesmusic gave me a thorough explanation of the woodwind challenges, those challenges have somehow been met by high school, college, and other sophisticated groups who perform outdoors. What do they know to make it work? MikeD, as a traditional band director, please add your own comments as to why clarinets, and such, continue outdoors with so many other groups, despite the difficulties. Perhaps 'quality' is not an issue there, like it is in DCI. Is it that simple?

I know you've asked Mike, but I'll also chime in on the difference between scholastic marching band and drum and bugle corps. My school has roughly 180ish marching band members

For one, the majority of woodwinds used in our band program are student-owned: flutes, clarinets, alto, tenor, and bari saxes, some bass clarinets. We don't use double reeds (though we have for solo stuff previously at times as the show calls). A lot of the clarinets have plastic clarinets just for marching band, and wooden clarinets they use concert season. Since the majority of the ww instruments are student owned, any problems are paid for by the students. The school owned instruments (a few tenor and bari saxes, several bass clarinets) need repaired at least annually during the marching band season (after they've been serviced over the summer), some of the older instruments a couple times a season. But the majority of ww instruments are paid for by the parents/students (I'd say a good 85%, at least). With drum corps that would obviously not be the case, and I doubt drum corps would use the cheaper variety of instruments: the weather affects wood clarinets FAR more than plastic, obviously.

Also, usage time is SIGNIFICANTLY more in drum corps. We rehearse on average of an hour a day during school (first period of the day), 2.5 hours Thursday night, and often five hours on Saturdays. One drum corps rehearsal day would practice longer than my school does an entire week! The wear & tear would significantly be greater in drum corps. Also, I teach in Southern CA where our weather is pretty mild. However, if it starts raining at a football game and we're not prepared for it, the majority of ww instruments will need to go in for repairs the next week. Pads come unglued in the water AND crack, dry out in the heat. Wood warps in extreme temperatures & humidity. Over the course of a marching band season it's not uncommon for screws to fall out, spring to fall out or get too worn, or even key rails to get dented. There are so many moving pars on a woodwind that are extremely delicate, it would be a nightmare to upkeep for a group who rehearses eight hours or so on a show day & 12+ hours on a rehearsal day.

A group I worked with several years ago was in the Rose Parade when there was heavy rain all day, and literally every single woodwind instrument needed to go into the shop afterwards. The bill for the school alone was several thousand dollars; I have no idea how much for the kids who owned their own woodwinds. And again, this is in Southern CA where the weather is awesome the majority of the time! A summer tour that swings down south, spends significant time in the midwest & east (i.e. places with crazy humidity and significant rainfall during the summer), and instruments would constantly be in need of repair.

With brass instruments, you can clean them out in the shower & with a bit of oil and you're good to go. Is there a collision and the bell or something dents? You can either knock it out, or maybe it's just cosmetic and not a big deal. With a woodwind, if a key bends then you aren't able to play that note (or several notes, depending on the key), it will need immediate repair.

That doesn't even cover more common stuff like fun with reeds. If you're lined up to go into the gate and someone accidentally backs into your clarinet & breaks your reed? You're likely screwed for the show. If there is a sudden weather shift from warm-ups to the starting line? You're ww's are in trouble (and their timbre is closest to front ensemble keys, so there will be constant intonation problems between mic'ed keys & woodwinds). Check out that Glassmen video from several years ago when they're performing in the down poor. That likely ruined some plumes (if they used 'em), probably some front ensemble mallets, & some drum heads. If that were a marching band, they would've either needed to have been wearing baggy ponchos to protect the woodwinds, or every woodwind instrument would've likely have been ruined.

If we're talking a small ensemble or soloist, all of that is minimized and not as big a deal. But a full on 30 or 40 member woodwind section? That would be a nightmare!