The Inevitable Woodwind

[Jeff Ream]

Sadly, I can't disagree. There are no arguments against woodwinds that can be mustered that haven't already been addressed and dismissed concerning amplification, electronics and brass. It's coming - it's just a matter of when.

Mike

yup. the whispering started with any key brass, got louder with amps because everyone knew electronics was right around the corner after that....now all that's left is woodwinds. it will happen. Not sure when, and when it does, well, I'll spend my money elsewhere.

[Mello Dude]

How would only a small ensemble of woodwinds touring with a corps work (legitimate question)? I would guess that it wouldn't be very appealing for good woodwind players (i.e. players whose primary instrument is a woodwind and they are good at it) to tie up their whole summer just to play a small portion of a show from the sidelines and not march. Also, I would guess that a good brass player is not going to be just as good on woodwinds, so that would make it tough for say in the middle of a show 10 of the trumpets to all of a sudden pick up 10 clarinets from the sideline and crank out a clarinet soli and then put down the clarinets and pick their trumpets back up and continue the show. Not that that couldn't actually be done, but the chances of recruiting brass players that are also just as good woodwind players I would think would be pretty slim.

Any ideas?

I don't see the issue. We already have pit players that don't march and don't seem to mind it. For parades I could see them doing the American Flag squad. People already tie up the whole summer to do "DCI" with the bands now. With the amps you don;t need much for the sound. I mean what about a jazz show with 5 sax and a bone player up front?

[drumcorpsfever]

i dunno. i think there will be far more resistance to ww's. but if they do pass...

ww's will follow the same path as voice. people will try it, realize the problems, and mostly give up on it.

ww's aren't practical for a touring corps. and the realities of ensemble balance will limit their use to being mic'd in the pit.

You talking Walter White or Walt Whitman?

[Fran Haring]

I mean what about a jazz show with 5 sax and a bone player up front?

That, right there, might be very cool.

I admit...I'm skeptical about the whole woodwinds thing, but I am going to do my best to keep an open mind on the issue.

One thing that gives me pause.... at the band shows I've worked, it seems that when a band amps a woodwind, the sound, quite often, is very thin... tinny, for lack of a better word. I hope a drum corps would do a better job with that, if it ever comes to pass.

[MikeD]

I don't see the issue. We already have pit players that don't march and don't seem to mind it. For parades I could see them doing the American Flag squad. People already tie up the whole summer to do "DCI" with the bands now. With the amps you don;t need much for the sound. I mean what about a jazz show with 5 sax and a bone player up front?

One difference is that if you were in the pit at your HS/college band you do not expect to march. In most cases, you would be taking WW players who have marched and telling them to stand in the pit. Might not be a big deal, but it is a difference.

[MikeD]

That, right there, might be very cool.

I admit...I'm skeptical about the whole woodwinds thing, but I am going to do my best to keep an open mind on the issue.

One thing that gives me pause.... at the band shows I've worked, it seems that when a band amps a woodwind, the sound, quite often, is very thin... tinny, for lack of a better word. I hope a drum corps would do a better job with that, if it ever comes to pass.

The sound of the micced instrument depends on the setup you have, and how well you use it. I know when we used a micced English Horn soloist in the band I teach, it took a while to get the mix and sound the way we wanted it. Same applied to the electric cello we used over two years. The first year I don't think we ever got the sound exactly as desired in the "Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon" show. We got it much better the second year in "Sweeney Todd".

[Tim K]

I guess I don't see why inclusion of woodwinds is inevitable. I don't think there is a similar website to DCP regarding youth symphony orchestras, but if there were, there would not be discussions about adding banjos to the orchestra because they are inevitable. They would endorse their identity and would not insist that a saxophone be used in a piece by Mozart or remove the string section from the orchestra when playing a piece by Barber to accommodate more trumpets. There's nothing wrong with distinctions in musical groups. Distinctions in sports works well, why not music.

Regarding including more opportunities for musicians by allowing woodwinds, twenty of the twenty two WC corps are not having serious recruitment issues if their Facebook pages are to be believed, and of the two that do seem to have some challenges, one of them voted against changing the instrumentation to include all brass.

Including woodwinds would not be innovative or a natural innovation either. Woodwinds and bands are not new inventions.

The only way to settle whether woodwinds belong in drum corps is to have a separate summer band circuit similar to DCI corps that want woodwinds could join this circuit. Fans could show which group they support by attending shows.

[Fred Windish]

Correct, Tim!

Even though tesmusic gave me a thorough explanation of the woodwind challenges, those challenges have somehow been met by high school, college, and other sophisticated groups who perform outdoors. What do they know to make it work? MikeD, as a traditional band director, please add your own comments as to why clarinets, and such, continue outdoors with so many other groups, despite the difficulties. Perhaps 'quality' is not an issue there, like it is in DCI. Is it that simple?

[tesmusic]

Correct, Tim!

Even though tesmusic gave me a thorough explanation of the woodwind challenges, those challenges have somehow been met by high school, college, and other sophisticated groups who perform outdoors. What do they know to make it work? MikeD, as a traditional band director, please add your own comments as to why clarinets, and such, continue outdoors with so many other groups, despite the difficulties. Perhaps 'quality' is not an issue there, like it is in DCI. Is it that simple?

To my point, those are only scracthing the surface of how it works.

Furthermore, how do high schools, colleges, and others make it work, simple, their season is significantly less time consuming and many of the elements are lessened.

There is also a quality issue. Granted, Greg Bimm get's his WW to play incredible during the fall season with Marian Catholic, but their rehearsal schedule and performance schedule doesn't even equate to more than about 2 weeks of performances/rehearsals that a drum corps does. He's also got 250-300 kids on the field each year so those 32 clarinets will be ok if several are having instrument issues. Now if DCI goes to a much larger group, faulty equipment wouldn't be an issue I guess.

I still think from a fiscal and musical standpoint it makes no sense, and I find it hard to say because it works for college and high school marching bands, that it would not be a hindrance at the DCI level.

I could be wrong though, I'm just a simple band director that marched DCI and deals with these issues on a day to day basis.

[MikeD]

Correct, Tim!

Even though tesmusic gave me a thorough explanation of the woodwind challenges, those challenges have somehow been met by high school, college, and other sophisticated groups who perform outdoors. What do they know to make it work? MikeD, as a traditional band director, please add your own comments as to why clarinets, and such, continue outdoors with so many other groups, despite the difficulties. Perhaps 'quality' is not an issue there, like it is in DCI. Is it that simple?

WW work just fine outdoors. IMO some of the negatives posted are magnified by people who don't want them in the first place. Would there be times when you might want to put them away in a rehearsal, in bad weather, for example? Sure, just like with the electronics. Not a big deal to me. It happens with 10's of thousands of bands today.

As for the 'why' of today...the students play clarinet, sax, flute, etc...in a scholastic setting, why would they not play their chosen instrument in both marching and concert band? Some do change, of course, but not in huge numbers.

Properly arranged, WW can add a lot to a wind arrangement.

Personally, as much as I would like to see an "Anything Goes" division in DCI, I don't see it happening very soon. I hope I am wrong, but outside of one or two directors, there doesn't seem to be much of a push for it, and none at the instructor level as far as I can tell (but maybe others know better than me on that).