Why won't DCI follow this type of path?


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Why won’t DCI follow this type of path?

“A few years ago skyrocketing costs began negatively impacting the quality of our racing activity. At that time it cost a single-driver team over ten million dollars each season to be competitive. Independent teams were going bankrupt, and the competitive parity fans desire at every race was greatly diminishing. So in an effort to curtail sharply increasing expenditures we started down the path of massive rules changes and competition overhauls. We did things from limiting the number of tires teams could use at each event to completely revamping car design structures; not only for safety reasons but so that fewer cars had to be built by teams for each track configuration. We limited the testing each team could do each season at various tracks, and severely cut back the time teams could spend at ultra-expensive wind tunnels. All of this has worked in a tremendous way not only to bring down the costs of operating a team but it has helped the parity of the competition; and this has helped single-driver independent teams to once again have an opportunity at placing their teams into the winners circle. Our next step is to revamp the rules concerning engine designs. We want the new engines to have less horsepower, develop less wear, and have greater longevity in order to bring costs down even further. If the rules changes had hurt the competition instead of helping, if the changes had created unintended consequences we would be here with a different message. But we are glad to say that by bringing the costs down over the past few years, the activity has actually improved.” - NASCAR

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I believe SoundSport is the response that you are looking for. It's a part of DCI and it is an operation that provides minimal barriers to entry towards the production of brand new corps and/or ensemb

easy....drum corps performers don't get paid. NASCAR drivers do

Do high school football teams and college teams get to vote on NFL rules? Just curious.

You probably won't like the answer, but...

DCI doesn't want parity. They want stability. And generally, you'll find that many believe that stability is anti-parity.

Until you have a league where someone like the Blue Devils can miss finals a few years in a row and not be substantially impacted (like nearly or actually fold), you won't see this. Unlike sports and sports owners, there are not people itching to become "team owners" with millions of dollars.

And if that ever happens, do you think the activity would look anything like it does or has?

Lowering the barrier of entry is a competitive disadvantage to top groups. Until that changes, the status quo, the break-evens, the normal charity thing is the norm. The pie is divided, and the pie ain't gettin' much bigger.

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Because DCI doesn't think anything is wrong - at least from what they keep saying with their take on attendance numbers. It took NASCAR to realize that something was wrong to decide to change it. Just like with anything in life, if someone doesn't believe that anything is wrong, there is no reason to change anything.

DCI won't follow this same path because they don't think anything is wrong...but NASCAR did.

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I believe SoundSport is the response that you are looking for. It's a part of DCI and it is an operation that provides minimal barriers to entry towards the production of brand new corps and/or ensembles. So, if you consider ALL of DCI's initiatives and not just their World Class Division it could be argued that they are.

Edited by charlie1223
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You probably won't like the answer, but...

DCI doesn't want parity. They want stability. And generally, you'll find that many believe that stability is anti-parity.

Until you have a league where someone like the Blue Devils can miss finals a few years in a row and not be substantially impacted (like nearly or actually fold), you won't see this. Unlike sports and sports owners, there are not people itching to become "team owners" with millions of dollars.

And if that ever happens, do you think the activity would look anything like it does or has?

Lowering the barrier of entry is a competitive disadvantage to top groups. Until that changes, the status quo, the break-evens, the normal charity thing is the norm. The pie is divided, and the pie ain't gettin' much bigger.

Thank you for being the first to reply! It does not matter if I like an answer or not; I am merely seeking opinions. Interesting position you have: Of course creating competitive rule parity would change the face of the activity as it is now, but you seem to think that is a bad thing. Lowering competitive costs is not actually as much of a disadvantage to the current top groups as raising the costs is a disadvantage to the current corps outside the top 12. Your contention that if BD fell out of the top 12 the world would implode has not shown to be true; by your prediction when Madison Scouts fell out of the top 12 they should have folded instead of rebounded. When The Cavaliers fell to 8th did the world implode? And you predict the impact of a corps like the Jersey Surf making the top 12, or the Colts actually making it into the top 5, while Regiment and SCV fell spots that would create severe instability within DCI? Sorry, but I do not see that occurring. I see that as a bolstering of the philosophy which gave rise to the G7 proposal.

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Because DCI doesn't think anything is wrong - at least from what they keep saying with their take on attendance numbers. It took NASCAR to realize that something was wrong to decide to change it. Just like with anything in life, if someone doesn't believe that anything is wrong, there is no reason to change anything.

DCI won't follow this same path because they don't think anything is wrong...but NASCAR did.

The numbers of fans at NASCAR events was not dropping; that was not the problem. The number of teams competing was what was dropping due to the ever rising expenditures; the numbers of sponsors were also dwindling due to the increasing expenditures; and only a few teams which could maintain above ten million per year per driver revenue streams were competitive which also had a blowback effect on the number of teams dwindling. That is what NASCAR found to be frightening.

Edited by Stu
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I believe SoundSport is the response that you are looking for. It's a part of DCI and it is an operation that provides minimal barriers to entry towards the production of brand new corps and/or ensembles. So, if you consider ALL of DCI's initiatives and not just their World Class Division it could be argued that they are.

I think it is a noble effort. But if SoundSport is all age, anything goes instrumentation, more of a fun fun thing than being a drum corps oriented competition, will that actually generate new corps entering the OC? We shall see.

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I think it is a noble effort. But if SoundSport is all age, anything goes instrumentation, more of a fun fun thing than being a drum corps oriented competition, will that actually generate new corps entering the OC? We shall see.

It's true that anything goes instrumentation but at the same time there isn't any precedent. I think I remember a DCP poster talking about his all G bugle SoundSport ensemble. One more drum corps, right?

Besides isn't a world class corps largest expense during the summer transportation, gas and housing? maybe food is up there. I don't think any kind of rule changes would bring those costs down. Actually, I can't really think of a rule change that would actually dramatically lower the barrier to entry.

Make electronics illegal? The equipment is usually fine for a number a season so spread over the amount of time a corps uses them they are not that burdensome and certainly won't be the difference between a corps staying afloat or folding.

Well, the Pit is probably the most expensive section of the corps (between everything that is in a pit) so... what if we restrict the amount of marimbas and vibes they can have? Well, the corps resell their instruments after every season so this is a source of revenue for the corps, don't want to take that away from them.

Restrict spending on props/uniforms/flags? ermm... Maybe if they had less members there would less mouths to feed, buses to use, and instruments to buy? But, I guess corps already have that option if they wanted.... But allowing all brass into DCI? Hey, that actually could lower barrier to entry if I only had a bunch of trombones and sousaphones to start my corps!

Edited by charlie1223
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It's true that anything goes instrumentation but at the same time there isn't any precedent. I think I remember a DCP poster talking about his all G bugle SoundSport ensemble. One more drum corps, right?

That is the hope. And I want something like SoundSport of the WGI Winds thing to blossom so as to help small up-starts. But with as fluid of a structure SoundSport currently has it is sort of like trying to form soemthing solid out of wet oatmeal.

Besides isn't a world class corps largest expense during the summer transportation, gas and housing? I don't think any kind of rule changes would bring those costs down.

Yes; all-summer national touring is very hard on finances; especially with smaller WC corps. Not saying that DCI would agree to this because it is retroactive but at least it would bring down costs without destroying competition…. A DCI regional tour sysstem until independence day, and a DCI national touring system from July 5 ending at Championships certainly would bring travel and touring costs down drastically; and I contend it would not bring down the competition aspect, but it would increase the parity of competition by allowing smaller corps to use more of their current resources on the performances instead of operational expenditures.

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Yes; all-summer national touring is very hard on finances; especially with smaller WC corps. Not saying that DCI would agree to this because it is retroactive but at least it would bring down costs without destroying competition…. A DCI regional tour sysstem until independence day, and a DCI national touring system from July 5 ending at Championships certainly would bring travel and touring costs down drastically; and I contend it would not bring down the competition aspect, but it would increase the parity of competition by allowing smaller corps to use more of their current resources on the performances instead of operational expenditures.

If they did do a regional tour before July 4th then it probably would mean DCI couldn't do their Cinema Broadcast on June 23rd of the June 21st show in Akron, Ohio. I wonder if the revenue gained is worth the cost of getting all the corps to Ohio in the early season (Bluecoats, Boston Crusaders, Carolina Crown, Cadets, Cavaliers, Madison Scouts and Phantom Regiment). I would imagine so since they have been doing this for a few years now.

Edited by charlie1223
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