Why do People Feel the Blue Devils are so Innovative?

[Jeff Ream]

..and I remember that some people here have denied that BD influences anybody on DCP last year with their show designs when it was brought up in a thread, which is crazy talk.

Now we have perc2100 say: " It seems undeniable to me that if several corps are trying to emulate BD's style, even if it's "take BD show design style and spin it our own unique way," then BD is indeed innovative: they inspire many others from a design standpoint. Most corps don't (and can't) achieve the level of success BD has, but I would say that BD's style has influenced Crown over the last several seasons: in ways that benefit ALL of us.".

The part where he is intimating that BD influences other corps, and even Crown is what I had basically stated but had to argue with people here on DCP about. Of course my opinion was that they influence other corps because they win is not presented in his quote, but that was my assertion then and still worth mentioning now.

I'm not sure if perc2100 was one of the naysayers, but find it funny that it's now being said that BD and their winning formula IS influencing the activity. Anyway, just something that is amusing to me, and as I said was the case then is not a good thing for all corps.

Now, their genius arranging prowess should be emulated, in each corps own unique way, but not the whole design concepts they use for their shows. That is something that only they should do, imho.

I called Crown the Purple Devils last year. BD';s influence was indeed felt in Einstein.

[GUARDLING]

i have to agree with this. You see different or unique is too often lumped in with innovative. and really, they've broken new real new ground for 6 years now.

innovative has become that "tag" to use for something unlike what most are doing, but really, 95% of what they are doing, others corps do it too. It's just that BD does it enough to show you they can, and do it well at that, then move onto something else, while others just keep heaping the same thing over and over again.

The flaw in how it shows up in scoring is, despite what the new sheets say, the judges too often automatically credit difficulty so the number is higher than performance. Usually, by Allentown, BD is out performing their book and could use more beef, even minor touches, but the numbers reflect otherwise. It's like the judging community is afraid to say " sure you can do it..give us more" with their numbers.

BD is very much into perfecting what they choose to do and not changing in the 11th hour. Sometimes, even many times it's cool when a corps adds something or beef's something at the end BUT there has also been times when it bites you in the butt. Too many changes.

BD talent wise could probably change what they wanted i suppose and still be able to perfect by championships.

[chaddyt]

BD is very much into perfecting what they choose to do and not changing in the 11th hour. Sometimes, even many times it's cool when a corps adds something or beef's something at the end BUT there has also been times when it bites you in the butt. Too many changes.

BD talent wise could probably change what they wanted i suppose and still be able to perfect by championships.

I can't speak to their approach to design, but it just comes across so focused and thought-out (even their announcements are detailed). They seem to know exactly what they're trying to convey and how they're going to convey it well before June arrives. You rarely see them making any wholesale changes throughout the season. It's just small adjustments and fine tuning for them.

I think that is a huge strength for them competitively. It may not be an innovative trait, but it seems to be a rather unique one in the activity.

[GUARDLING]

I can't speak to their approach to design, but it just comes across so focused and thought-out (even their announcements are detailed). They seem to know exactly what they're trying to convey and how they're going to convey it well before June arrives. You rarely see them making any wholesale changes throughout the season. It's just small adjustments and fine tuning for them.

I think that is a huge strength for them competitively. It may not be an innovative trait, but it seems to be a rather unique one in the activity.

exactly! like them or not, that's personal taste and everyone has one and as much as many don't think there are those out there who do love what they are about , they would be very wrong. There's 2 sides to everything and this isn't any different.

So, sheet changes, style changes, whatever the activity changes into I think BD , like them or not, they know how to play the game and will adapt a necessary. Maybe that's what makes them relevant in the activity for so long.

Edited May 8, 2014 by GUARDLING

[HornTeacher]

I called Crown the Purple Devils last year. BD';s influence was indeed felt in Einstein.

I just watched last year's Crown show again today...3 times.

Don't know why, but I really picked up a very strong "Star of Indiana" resonance. Weird.

[jjeffeory]

I just watched last year's Crown show again today...3 times.

Don't know why, but I really picked up a very strong "Star of Indiana" resonance. Weird.

It's like Crown had some former Star staff or members... Go figure. ....or breathe "Dah"....

Actually, it's like Crown has some old Garfield DNA in there. Even more strange I know...

Honestly, I get the BD references, I get the Star references, and I get THE Cadets references too ( Especially since I just made that connection in THIS very reply).

INCEST!

[Ghost]

I can't speak to their approach to design, but it just comes across so focused and thought-out (even their announcements are detailed). They seem to know exactly what they're trying to convey and how they're going to convey it well before June arrives. You rarely see them making any wholesale changes throughout the season. It's just small adjustments and fine tuning for them.

I think that is a huge strength for them competitively. It may not be an innovative trait, but it seems to be a rather unique one in the activity.

And they usually open up their season each year with at least a 72.

[FlamMan]

it's to bad you can't recognize what designers are doing and appreciate it. There were shows BITD that people didn't care for , just like today. So just pick what you like and go get a souvie or a hot dog for the others. There was variety then as well as today.

There are also fans who do like what many corps are doing today. Your own alumni chose a way to please many of the older fans as well as today's and did a pretty good job.

There is no variety in drum corps today. A typical DC show BITD would feature corps who played jazz, spanish, british, scottish, broadway, & more. Today everyone plays the same generic symphonic music. Businesses fail because consumers no longer want their product. DCI has been failing for 20+ years now. It would behoove DCI & the drum corps themselves to actually listen to fans & what they they like & what they dont like.

[Jeff Ream]

BD is very much into perfecting what they choose to do and not changing in the 11th hour. Sometimes, even many times it's cool when a corps adds something or beef's something at the end BUT there has also been times when it bites you in the butt. Too many changes.

BD talent wise could probably change what they wanted i suppose and still be able to perfect by championships.

I'm not saying their way is wrong.

I'm just saying performer should be over the book

[jjeffeory]

There is no variety in drum corps today. A typical DC show BITD would feature corps who played jazz, spanish, british, scottish, broadway, & more. Today everyone plays the same generic symphonic music. Businesses fail because consumers no longer want their product. DCI has been failing for 20+ years now. It would behoove DCI & the drum corps themselves to actually listen to fans & what they they like & what they dont like.

I absolutely know what you're saying and I agree somewhat with what you're saying. I have a very difficult time differentiating between the different styles today too because the activity is just so homogenized. I don't want to get too off track of the intent of the thread, but I think it's not what corps are playing, it's how they're arranged. It's how they're scored. But you have to concede that there are different styles being played the last few years too.

You want British and Scottish music? Blue Knights did that in 2011. ...and I'll tell you that I heard Jim Prime Jr's old school arranging style in the first part of the show, and I heard Bocook's style too. You want broadway? SCV did that last year. You want Jazz? Spirit did that a bit, and they even had Boerma arrange the music. Some of the older Scout's sound was present there. Other corps are doing jazz a bit, but they're not as many corps doing it. Certainly BD isn't doing the same kind of jazz, but they still do compose some very complex shows with jazz-esque chords. You want Spanish? Well so do I, but it's not popular anymore. I think that ship sailed by the mid 90s. Madison had a bit in their 2012 show with Malaga and Malaguena. Crown's interpretation of Puck was a bit Spanish sounding in 2009. Maybe I should say, Latin(o) sounding... They even played a Rock show. No, it wasn't the rock "opera" Tommy ala Blue Devils, but it was a rock show ( and they did borrow Piano Concerto No. 2 from BD)... So while I hear what you're saying, corps are trying to play more than symphonic music. I really feel it's the popular arranging style which gets in the way from our enjoyment.

Honestly, people are jumping all over themselves over BD's rep announcement. I'm not sold on everything, but they're playing something that was freakin' composed for them by Gordan Goodman. Go check him out. Jazz.....

Like, legit jazz............

Madison's playing freaking Stan Kenton and Don Ellis. Yea, the trombones are a bummer. They could be playing on some tromboniums, but it's freakin' big band jazz, cat.

Bluecoats are playing some freaky stuff that's certainly not "symphonic" music.

Boston's doing something with Animal Farm in the show title...

Crossmen are playing some Eastern Europe Gypsy music... No, it's not Spanish, or even Latin, but it's a different style.

Troopers are playing "Trooper music"

SCV is playing Scheherazade

Cavies are playing something that will probably be classical and dark.

Colts are playing Pink Floyd, Radio Head, and The Wizard of Oz.

Phantom is playing "Swan Lake".

I could go on.... Point is there is variety in the repertoire, but now the arrangers need to step up and make sure it doesn't all sound the same and I have hope that many of these arrangers will be successful.

No, BD is going to sound like BD. SCV is going to sound like Phan, er SCV. Phantom is going to sound like Glass... er Phantom... et cetera.... But there certainly is a chance for variety this year that wasn't there some years in the past.

People are going to eat up Radio Head. They're going to love what the Bluecoats do, and apparently BD has a winning thing going this year with the posters here on DCP. My only worry is not the "what" (variety) it's the how (homogenized arrangements, and chop-n-bop, too much synth and pit).