noblegaijin Posted June 6, 2014 Author Share Posted June 6, 2014 The simple answer to the question of competitive inertia is that except for Carolina Crown no Corps move up very much beyond their DCI station in life. Why ? , ...well because there is an established pecking order of accepted tradition whereby lower corps talent feed into the rosters of the higher placing Corps their best marcher talent each and every year. Additionally, The top show design Corps staffs have remained intact pretty much since The Beatles broke up. The marchers from the Scholastic Band world only want to march with what they perceive to be the Beautiful People's ( top tier ) Corps. Thats just the reality here. You want your Corps ( any Corps, not just BK ) to move up in DCI ? Convince your vets in your Corps that you are not in a " Stepping Stone Corps " ....that you are a " Final Destination Corps ". And that your Corps is special.. that they are unique... that they are family... and that they will stick together for one another. You accomplish that, and you will move up in placement in the future as you'll retain your best marcher talent who feel like they are in a Corps family... and you'll find also that other talented staffers from other Corps will likely find that the culture in your Corps attractive and will want to be part of breaking thru that glass ceiling and will move heaven and earth to become a part of a Corps that they believe is fully committed to excellence throughout its organization. You do that, and you have a shot, imo. Absent that, you can just about forget about moving up thru the perennially slotted pecking order, as the top 3 or 4 Corps are going to be a magnet for other lower placing Corps marchers just as they have always been. Yes - this is closer to the truth than the "we don't care about placement" sentiment I was getting from folks earlier. Whomever is recruiting needs to sell BK and demonstrate its earnestness in being number one. Seek out top talent, invest in meeting with that talent, and then convince them that BK is serious about being champions and explain its roadmap for getting there. I really can't imagine that it would cost a great deal more money than they are already spending. Perhaps time and planning are the mitigating factors. Everyone clamors "Retention. Retention. Retention." - retention is nothing more than a reflection on how your membership views your program. Put something amazing on the field, and you'll find that membership will be the least of your concerns. Ask Santa Clara, BD, or the Cavies if they have a retention problem. In any case, it would make one hell of a Rudy story to see them crack top 3 in the coming years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wesleyrp Posted June 6, 2014 Share Posted June 6, 2014 Kudos to Phillipmartin for your post..... I have seen that trend as well and didn't mention the idea of going very different in order to move up. My thoughts remain about the age of the corps. The OP marched 2000 which was a cool and innovative show. In both 99 and 00 the corps was 5th I believe coming out of Quarters but dropped back to 7th and 6th respectively. That said, both if those corps '99 n '00 BK retained A LOT of membership and the Perc placed 3rd in 2000 as well. I remember in 97 our average age was like16.5 literally and those kids grew up and stayed til they aged out. 2001 had some of the best BK talent ever but BK the design crew went off the deep end and tried something that was so left field of what was done leading to that. In the years after the best BK retention happened between 05-07.... The result? 7th and 8th place finishes that could've created more but retention didn't stay the same. Lots of staff changing and design changing in 09 and 2010. Could've been the demise of the corps but they took to the new styles and did the best with with very young corps. The staff has been building for awhile and now contains some great pieces in JC as the drill writer, Mike Jackson on Perc and the continued continuity on the brass staff. That plus a ton of vets coming back this year make for lots of potential. Top 6? I don't know, competitive- Absolutely. Boston BK Madison and Cavies have all been duking it out the past few seasons and BK could quite close out ahead at the end. I'm a proud alum who loves the direction. The corps is going and can't wait to see the new unis on the field! Wes P 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allegro89 Posted June 6, 2014 Share Posted June 6, 2014 Yes - this is closer to the truth than the "we don't care about placement" sentiment I was getting from folks earlier. Whomever is recruiting needs to sell BK and demonstrate its earnestness in being number one. Seek out top talent, invest in meeting with that talent, and then convince them that BK is serious about being champions and explain its roadmap for getting there. I really can't imagine that it would cost a great deal more money than they are already spending. Perhaps time and planning are the mitigating factors. Everyone clamors "Retention. Retention. Retention." - retention is nothing more than a reflection on how your membership views your program. Put something amazing on the field, and you'll find that membership will be the least of your concerns. Ask Santa Clara, BD, or the Cavies if they have a retention problem. In any case, it would make one hell of a Rudy story to see them crack top 3 in the coming years. So you're just assuming this isn't already happening? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noblegaijin Posted June 6, 2014 Author Share Posted June 6, 2014 Tell me, then, what the answers are? You are asking "what's holding them back?" "why not turn your sights on the next level?". Do you honestly think the Blue Knights organization doesn't WANT that? You're ridiculous to think that things happen at the snap of a finger. It's almost as if you are taking offense with the fact that BK has only been a bottom 6 corps. How about you celebrate your corps for their achievements? By the way, if you are so concerned about your corps, what are you doing to "fix" this? Get a music degree and go be on the brass staff if you think you have all of the answers. You make it sound as if BK getting 9th place is some kind of new phenomenon. I'm not talking about snapping fingers here. This is now a decades old tradition. BK had the stage set in 2001 and blew it with poorly conceived ideas about what constitutes "entertaining". One could argue they had a similar chance coming off of Avian only to see them settle back into the quicksand. Because I don't volunteer to be a brass tech, I suppose I don't have a valid opinion, correct? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noblegaijin Posted June 6, 2014 Author Share Posted June 6, 2014 So you're just assuming this isn't already happening? Here's what I can tell you - the Blue Knights have an undeniable trend which has them hovering around the mid to lower end of finals year after year. In any other business, anemic or negative growth is not viewed as a positive phenomenon. Of course I "assume" some of the things I mentioned above are not happening. Objectively, I can say that they certainly haven't fielded a show that makes me believe, and likely many would-be or returning Knights have felt the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wesleyrp Posted June 6, 2014 Share Posted June 6, 2014 Wow.... Again you have a lot of opinions on BK and what they're not doing... You call the corps office yet? 303 777- 1937, Rosalie will get you in touch with Mark and staff.... I'm sure they're dying to know that they don't plan for the future, work to improve year on a out or have done anything meaningful in the past.... I'm sure many who've gone home in tears for not making finals are thinking how dismal it would be to be a top 10 corps every year- Despite lots of staff a d member turnover. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noblegaijin Posted June 6, 2014 Author Share Posted June 6, 2014 I can tell you as BK Alumni (Pit 93-95) that BK has been down the whole "entertainment" road before. In 91 and 92, BK placed 9th with shows that were well performed, but maybe lacking in the "wow" department. They also picked up the "Blue Ninth" moniker in the process. So in 1993 they decided to shake things up with a show containing the music of Star Trek and a 5 minute drum solo (which was killer by the way). Guess what happened, we dropped to 10th, and were #### lucky to score that high. Then in 1994, we go back to basics with not the most exciting show, but again, a well performed show. The result? Tied for 7th. Here comes 1995. Instead of sticking with the formula that works, the designers decided they wanted to be more entertaining. What do they come up with? Disco. The result? Blue Knights watching finals. The same scenario played out in 2000 and 2001, this time Blue Knights are out of finals for the next 3 years. The moral of the story is, stick with what you know and what you do well. See, but this assumes too many things. First, that BK has the right idea about "entertainment" to begin with. I think most folks who saw the Cartoon show or many others throughout the last 10 years would tell you that they weren't terribly entertained. This makes me recall a topic which Mark Arnold always talks about during the early camps of each season. He draws a simple line graph which illustrates the idea that, when you try something new it usually means that your skill level "gets worse before it gets better". So, we try on the entertainment shoe, get panned a bit, and then run back to what's familiar? Hell no. You drive forward and break that shoe in until it's a comfortable fit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noblegaijin Posted June 6, 2014 Author Share Posted June 6, 2014 Wow.... Again you have a lot of opinions on BK and what they're not doing... You call the corps office yet? 303 777- 1937, Rosalie will get you in touch with Mark and staff.... I'm sure they're dying to know that they don't plan for the future, work to improve year on a out or have done anything meaningful in the past.... I'm sure many who've gone home in tears for not making finals are thinking how dismal it would be to be a top 10 corps every year- Despite lots of staff a d member turnover. Wes - this smacks of "we should just be grateful to be a part of the conversation." instead of "we have what it takes to be the best." You can paint all of the sad pictures you want, but when the results are the same year after year, maybe it's time to start having some difficult conversations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IMcomguy Posted June 6, 2014 Share Posted June 6, 2014 Honestly, I care less about the "top six" than I do about driving me from my seat with something special. '95 and '96 Scouts gave me goose bumps but weren't above six. Perhaps you need to review your history of other corps as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noblegaijin Posted June 6, 2014 Author Share Posted June 6, 2014 (edited) Perhaps you need to review your history of other corps as well. 1995 Madison Scouts - 4th 1996 Madison Scouts - 6th Correct - that was a mistake. I had the 96 Buccaneer show in mind when I made that comment. The 96 Crossmen really surprised as well (9th place). Edited June 6, 2014 by noblegaijin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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