noblegaijin Posted June 7, 2014 Author Share Posted June 7, 2014 I am not the biggest Blue Knights fan, and will admit of the top 12, they are one of the corps I follow least because they do not come to New England that often and I have not had the opportunity to get "up close and personal" with them i.e watch them rehearse, talk with parents/instructors, etc. And I will admit that there have been times their shows have made me scratch my head and wonder what I saw and heard. However, the original poster makes it sound as if the corps is devoid of any personal appeal or familiar music. A quick glance of Corpsreps shows this is not the case and since they have yet to place in the top 5, winning is not everything for the corps but they still seem to recruit, and if memory serves me correctly, the corps saved a spot for a young woman who had to sit out the season due to cancer and Greg Kuzma's book does not make being in BK sound like drudgery (granted that's a few years back). All in all, it seems like a good organization. Then, we essentiall agree. I think the organization (public outreach, commitment to fielding a corps year in and year out) is pretty solid through and through. But your opening sentence is precisely where I am coming from - they do not field interesting shows. That's it. No other agenda. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChuckH Posted June 7, 2014 Share Posted June 7, 2014 I would suggest to simply start your own drum corps; and then operate as you think best. At the risk of veering this into another topic (I'll tie in the "start your own corps" comments and placement issues in a bit), whenever I've been at DATR or other local events, the whispered grumblings I've heard seem to be less about placement and more about opportunities for local kids. At a past send-off show, I heard one guy (evidently a Texas alum, curiously enough) expressing a bit of worry that there were only about 40 (his number) BK members from Colorado. (I guess I should ask if that number is accurate, because I don't have that info. And for that matter, what are the other World Class corps' "local" membership numbers? Is 40 out of 150 typical?) Related to the aforementioned grumblings, I've also heard the cynical jokes about various World Class corps being "from Texas." (You can probably figure out which organizations that relates to.) I figure if the Blue Knights are drawing in talent from Texas (is L.A. another recruiting hotspot?) then they must be doing something right. I'm assuming that applies to the Troopers as well, to some extent, because I know both BK and Troopers run shuttles out to DIA to pick up members for their camps. (Relating to the issues I've written about so far, do kids in CO/WY really lack for opportunities? How many kids from here travel to upper-tier World Class Corps because they have the talent for it, and how many go to lower-tier World Class corps or Open Class corps because they can't get in with the Blue Knights or the Troopers? Also, on the flip-side of that, how many otherwise willing and able kids are stuck here for the summer because they can't afford travel to winter camps elsewhere?) From my perspective, I think the Blue Knights and the Troopers do pretty well for being located in what some people deem to be a "population dead zone." But one thing I notice that's lacking, in comparison to other regions of the country that have World Class corps, is that there's no nearby Open Class corps. (I guess that could also apply to The Academy, and arguably The Mandarins, since the nearby Open Class corps are feeder corps.) So -- getting back into the "start your own corps" angle -- would the presence of an Open Class Corps have a positive effect on factors like local opportunities, talent development, real or perceived membership retention issues (I know some people here say retention at BK is good), and even placement? Would there be enough interest, talent, and (perhaps most importantly) money available for that? (I know High Country Brass, an all-ages corps, is around here. Do they have a role in talent development?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wesleyrp Posted June 7, 2014 Share Posted June 7, 2014 Interesting questions chuck and to answer- BK has a large plethora of students coming from Texas. In fact in the fall there are audition camps in both Austin and Dallas. As someone who recruits pretty hard for them and has a pipeline of students year in and out from San Antonio and across the state- yes BK is highly successful at drawing students from here.... The percentage? I'm not sure but as some of the HS programs in Colorado have stagnated, places like New Mexico and Texas have had larger populations earning spots. El Paso has been a good draw and has amazing untapped talent for example. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noblegaijin Posted June 7, 2014 Author Share Posted June 7, 2014 At the risk of veering this into another topic (I'll tie in the "start your own corps" comments and placement issues in a bit), whenever I've been at DATR or other local events, the whispered grumblings I've heard seem to be less about placement and more about opportunities for local kids. At a past send-off show, I heard one guy (evidently a Texas alum, curiously enough) expressing a bit of worry that there were only about 40 (his number) BK members from Colorado. (I guess I should ask if that number is accurate, because I don't have that info. And for that matter, what are the other World Class corps' "local" membership numbers? Is 40 out of 150 typical?) Related to the aforementioned grumblings, I've also heard the cynical jokes about various World Class corps being "from Texas." (You can probably figure out which organizations that relates to.) I figure if the Blue Knights are drawing in talent from Texas (is L.A. another recruiting hotspot?) then they must be doing something right. I'm assuming that applies to the Troopers as well, to some extent, because I know both BK and Troopers run shuttles out to DIA to pick up members for their camps. (Relating to the issues I've written about so far, do kids in CO/WY really lack for opportunities? How many kids from here travel to upper-tier World Class Corps because they have the talent for it, and how many go to lower-tier World Class corps or Open Class corps because they can't get in with the Blue Knights or the Troopers? Also, on the flip-side of that, how many otherwise willing and able kids are stuck here for the summer because they can't afford travel to winter camps elsewhere?) From my perspective, I think the Blue Knights and the Troopers do pretty well for being located in what some people deem to be a "population dead zone." But one thing I notice that's lacking, in comparison to other regions of the country that have World Class corps, is that there's no nearby Open Class corps. (I guess that could also apply to The Academy, and arguably The Mandarins, since the nearby Open Class corps are feeder corps.) So -- getting back into the "start your own corps" angle -- would the presence of an Open Class Corps have a positive effect on factors like local opportunities, talent development, real or perceived membership retention issues (I know some people here say retention at BK is good), and even placement? Would there be enough interest, talent, and (perhaps most importantly) money available for that? (I know High Country Brass, an all-ages corps, is around here. Do they have a role in talent development?) Interesting points, Chuck. I haven't really given much thought to a correlation between world class and surrounding open class corps. I would assume that the need for open class corps simply bubbles forth from a surplus of applicants at their world class equivalents. As far as I know, they are essentially incubators for those who are on the cusp of making world class teams - correct me if I'm wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seen-it-all Posted June 7, 2014 Share Posted June 7, 2014 I understand where the OP is coming from, though I might not have been so public about his complaints as he was, considering he marched there. But I get it. The corps I marched in went through much of the same things in terms of what I felt was a certain competitive and creative stagnation, and I won't lie. It frustrated me as an alum. And there were times when I was vocal about it to the powers that be, and people around told me not to complain because it was hurting the corps. That frustrated me even more because I was taking it to the proper people and they didn't seem to think it was a problem, citing that many other corps were going through the same thing. And that if I loved the corps so much, I should just support them no matter what. So I do get it. But I also believe that by marching in that corps for many years and giving so much of myself to it, I earned the right to voice my opinion when I felt that more could be done to improve the corps and it seemed like nobody was interested in dealing with it. Or that nothing was really wrong to complain about to begin with. They still haven't really broken out of that rut either. I guess that's fine with them, but I won't apologize for believing that they could be (and should be) doing better. As for the Blue Knights themselves, I also agree that they aren't exactly at the top of my list of "must see" corps every year. I can't think of the last time I was really pleased as a fan with what they were offering. Maybe 1992? It's been that long for me, and I always felt they get lost in the shuffle because they're just kind of bland visually and musically. Not a bad corps by any stretch, but not exactly very memorable IMO. No real strong idenity I can latch onto as a fan. I can imagine how someone who marched with them might be frustrated that they rarely get the massive rousing standing ovations that the real popular corps get or that they can't seem to break through the wall to rise above 6th place one time. They've had some incredible designers, arrangers and instructors work there over the years, so whether it's direction from the top that keeps them in that same basic area of competitiveness and creativity, or not being able to keep those people in place long enough, I don't really know. I do have one friend who taught there a few years who liked it OK, but jumped at the chance to go to another corps who traditionally gets fans a lot more excited with their shows, even though competitively they were pretty much on par with BK at the time. Take that for what you will. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChuckH Posted June 7, 2014 Share Posted June 7, 2014 Interesting questions chuck and to answer- BK has a large plethora of students coming from Texas. In fact in the fall there are audition camps in both Austin and Dallas. As someone who recruits pretty hard for them and has a pipeline of students year in and out from San Antonio and across the state- yes BK is highly successful at drawing students from here.... The percentage? I'm not sure but as some of the HS programs in Colorado have stagnated, places like New Mexico and Texas have had larger populations earning spots. El Paso has been a good draw and has amazing untapped talent for example. Ah -- I didn't know about a rise in New Mexico's numbers, or El Paso's. (I guess a haul from El Paso to either San Antonio, Denver, or Phoenix would be about the same.) I think I can only remember one guy from New Mexico when I was in BK from 86 through 90. (I could be wrong.) And I haven't had much exposure to local high school programs aside from attending WGI indoor percussion events for the first time ever this year (I've been neglectful and uninformed on that front), so I may have missed out on the stagnation. I've heard that my own old high school supposedly doesn't even have a consistent music program anymore, according to what my mom and others tell me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corpsband Posted June 7, 2014 Share Posted June 7, 2014 Oh dear....some people just can't take criticism well. I'd say that some interesting dialog came out of these 11 pages, even if I don't personally agree with some of the points made. I really don't understand where the need was for personal attacks, Atucker. It's disappointing that you would attack my character even if you passionately disagree with my stance. Best of luck to you. No big deal. There was a FMM of Crown making similar posts for a couple of years. The world didn't come to an end. I understand the BK FMMs who'd prefer to keep these sorts of complaints "behind closed doors". But it's a public board where plenty of folks vent so I don't see the need for the personal attacks on you. it's DCP -- sometimes the mob with the torches and pitchforks try to chase you off. Just ignore them -- they'll find someone else to chase soon enough! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wesleyrp Posted June 7, 2014 Share Posted June 7, 2014 It's a trident.... Not a pitch fork........ Hahahaa kidding 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted June 7, 2014 Share Posted June 7, 2014 (edited) In my book. if you have a Corps out there still competing, there is no way in the world that I would call what you are doing today something less than " successful ". Not when we have several hundred Drum Corps,.. some of whom have at one time won National Titles... that are no longer out there performing even with as the poster said above re. BK ..." less than memorable shows" . I suppose its all perspective, but BK in my view is a terrific perennial Top 12 Finalist Corps, and with the strong current competition out there around them, coupled with all the Corps that can no longer even field a Drum Corps of ANY kind anymore, thats something to be rightfully proud of its its own right. Edited June 7, 2014 by BRASSO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
actucker Posted June 7, 2014 Share Posted June 7, 2014 Oh dear....some people just can't take criticism well. I'd say that some interesting dialog came out of these 11 pages, even if I don't personally agree with some of the points made. I really don't understand where the need was for personal attacks, Atucker. It's disappointing that you would attack my character even if you passionately disagree with my stance. Best of luck to you. There has been no personal attack. I don't know you, so how can I comment on your character. I can, however, comment on your behavior in this thread, which has been deplorable. As several other posters have mentioned, this is a conversation best had with your corps. I haven't taken anything personally, as I am not a member of Blue Knights, nor have I ever been. I have friends who have marched there, and that's about the end of my connection there. I'm simply pointing out that if you were a member of the corps I marched, I would have every reason to take your behavior very personally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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