DAvery Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 First ( and lastly ) scrap the entire current judging criteria system ( not tweak it ), and rewrite an entirely new one where somehow, some way the audience (" the people" ) have some say in the scoring and placements ( as they used to have for decades in the influence and the scoring in Drum Corps ). Absent that whiolesale judging system change, we are all just kidding ourselves here that in the future that " Drum Corps will be brought back to the people ". Thats fantasyland, and I really see no value in living in fantasyland. Back in the pre-DCI days judges had little or no musical traning, and had about as much training as a member of the audience. Corps had very little control of the way they were scored. Is that what we should aspire to? Is if this is an artisitic activity or not?. If we are an artistic activity then I fail to see how judges trained in art is a bad thing. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lincoln Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 I completely understand what you're proud about. However, this is the drum corps that the new generation knows and it's what they are proud about and love and you cannot fault them for that because they don't know any differently. Twenty years from now this generation will be acting as you guys are today and it will be full circle. It's purely generational. No - you didn't quite get what I was talking about.. I'm not pointing fingers at you. I'm getting that I did not explain myself well. Thanks for the input. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwillis35 Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 No, he is speaking for a huge number of drum corps fans. To be honest, you missed the boat on the way to the train, and your train stalled on the tracks. How do you know this, BozzlyB? Is there scientific proof somewhere. You could argue that a lot of fans love the direction of the activity. The important thing is to NOT assume. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madisonscoutsfan Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 IMO, its not the product that defines the activity, its the experience for the marchers and how it will impact there life. We may not like the direction that show design is taking, but we can still enjoy watching the kids having a blast performing their show that they have worked hard all summer for, I may not like the way shows are now, but every year I get more excited about auditioning in 2015. No matter what a show is made up of, the kids are still getting an amazing experience, and I cant wait until I can be part of something so great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drumcorpsfever Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 Shucks. I thought this thread, "Can it be?" would be about another new DCI Champion to join the mix this year. Oh, well. I'll have to read about that in the other thread, "Bluecoats 2014"! 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUARDLING Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 (edited) People from prior generations are less likely to respect the current generation. People from the current generation are not really respecting what their brothers and sisters brought to the activity in earlier times. I feel a lot older this year. The current generation likes where the activity is right now. To complain is futile. It's not what you/I knew. It's similar and at the same time it's foreign. I see things that I really like this year. Yes, there are times when I feel this huge "I don't like that!" but I guess the one comforting feeling is that the feeling is more generational than anything else. I wish younger people today would get familiar with what prior generations are proud about. I hope at the same time that my generation and those prior will accept that things change and what once was wasn't done for not. i agree but will say I truly believe, being a person who marched wayyyyy BITD and still lucky enough to be involved today in a way that still influences the activity and kids in some small way agree but believe it is a choice. Either generation has the ability to respect the other but many chose not to.. WHY? well many sociological and very predictable reasons, many of which have nothing to do with what people think it is. I've have had the fortune as well as misfortune to witness it every year dating back to the 70s. No change, no different.I have seen the lack of respect for those who came before. Kids must see and realise what they do today is only because of many greats who made it possible , and many of those people are still around today , still creating, still evolving . Yesterdays performer must also appreciate what their contribution was and watch how amazing these performers are today and how a very small activity moved into a new century and is still here. One cant get respect IF one can not give it . Those who can't find something amazing about the other IMO either don't belong in the activity or should take the memories and go. Now this does not mean either has to agree with direction then or now. Respect and an open mind.....JMO PS: lets see those who like to take everything out of context and cut up this post to project their agenda based on 1 or 2 lines...now thats classic and predictable....lol Edited June 22, 2014 by GUARDLING 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjeffeory Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 Just wondering: I do not follow BOA and am an occasional visitor to WGI events. In both cases it's due to scheduling. Every time something does not meet someone's standards in DCI, WGI and BOA and their terrible influence gets blamed. It seems to me that DCI has more influence over WGI and BOA than the other way around. So when something is not right in the world of high school bands and winter guards and drum lines, do the folks at WGI and BOA place the blame on DCI? That's a very good point. I don't think that BOA would put the blame on DCI, but WGI may. My experience from attending all three circuits is that, while DCI used to be the leader in the marching arts that was followed by BOA and the smaller circuits, it is now the reverse. This started happening in late 80s and the early 1990's and now it's to the point that they've pretty much converged. It took a while, but DCI is now copying much of from BOA designs of the past. WGI was influence by DCI earlier in both circuits' lives, but that was reversed even sooner into the 80s. By the late 80s WGI was influencing DCI more than the other way around... The percussion side took longer to follow this trend, but I began to notice those WGI drumline influences in DCI by 2005 ( Bloo and Cadets). I believe that this phenomenon has been happening because each activity is not big enough to support itself on it's own; the same people rotate from one activity to another year round to stay employed. As more an more designers and other staff seek year round employment and get to know each other and network ( and make friends with one another), finally working together, you eventually get the homogenization that has happened at all levels. It's not going to change now. What could have helped before is if each circuit would have been larger or more year round, so that designers didn't have to keep chasing a pay check. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUARDLING Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 That's a very good point. I don't think that BOA would put the blame on DCI, but WGI may. My experience from attending all three circuits is that, while DCI used to be the leader in the marching arts that was followed by BOA and the smaller circuits, it is now the reverse. This started happening in late 80s and the early 1990's and now it's to the point that they've pretty much converged. It took a while, but DCI is now copying much of from BOA designs of the past. WGI was influence by DCI earlier in both circuits' lives, but that was reversed even sooner into the 80s. By the late 80s WGI was influencing DCI more than the other way around... The percussion side took longer to follow this trend, but I began to notice those WGI drumline influences in DCI by 2005 ( Bloo and Cadets). I believe that this phenomenon has been happening because each activity is not big enough to support itself on it's own; the same people rotate from one activity to another year round to stay employed. As more an more designers and other staff seek year round employment and get to know each other and network ( and make friends with one another), finally working together, you eventually get the homogenization that has happened at all levels. It's not going to change now. What could have helped before is if each circuit would have been larger or more year round, so that designers didn't have to keep chasing a pay check. we have also been an inbred activity for a very long time Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluesman Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 (edited) Despite the fact that I had no idea what was meant by the title "Can It Be" I went ahead and read what he had to say. While I do disagree with the idea that WGI is the primary force in the number and rate of changes that have have happened in DCI recently. Progress and evolution are inevitable. But we have to admit that some of the changes have been failures. Some questions have to be asked. For example: Why do still hear so many balance issues with the electronics after a decade of their use? Why are so many pointless and distracting props being dragged around? Could we not hear soloist before they were mic'd? Did the addition of French horns and trombones add anything? I could on, but I think that part of moving forward and progressing is being willing to admit that some of the changes haven't added anything and others have been failures. Edited June 22, 2014 by bluesman 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geluf Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 (edited) Despite the fact that I had no idea what was meant by the title "Can It Be" I went ahead and read what he had to say. While I do disagree with the idea that WGI is the primary force in the number and rate of changes that have have happened in DCI recently. Progress and evolution are inevitable. But we have to admit that some of the changes have been failures. Some questions have to be asked. For example: Why do still hear so many balance issues with the electronics after a decade of their use? Why are so many pointless and distracting props being dragged around? Could we not hear soloist before they were mic'd? Did the addition of French horns and trombones add anything? I could on, but I think that part of moving forward and progressing is being willing to admit that some of the changes haven't added anything and others have been failures. Except that all of these are literally subjective opinions, not objective observations. "Being able to admit" something isn't working? Well, what? What one person thinks "isn't working" another thinks is just fine and vise versa. In your scenario the things that "don't work" are what you think don't work. Edited June 22, 2014 by geluf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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