DCI-86 Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 No. Blue stars 2013 was an all new staff and they went from out of finals into finals and with the same staff they are now moving up. Nope. Not entirely correct. Michael Shapiro was the only staff member that stayed. It's his creative input that produced their best shows (LeTour, Houdini etc) & it's his ideas this year that are shaping Blue Stars to start moving up again. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 (edited) So, the effect of a new staff, does it hurt initially...wonder why? DCI today is adults judging adults. It is not the marchers that are being judged anymore in competition that primarily generates the scores and placements. Not really. ( thats a passe false myth now.. that no longer holds true, as its time has come and gone.. despite the fact that in my observations, few want to acknowledge this, it seems to me ). Let me provide us an example. The Cavaliers finished 3rd in 2011, but had a 1 year drop of 5 places to 8th in 2012 to finish 8th. Raise your hand here if you believe The Cavaliers Corps had less overall marcher talent in their Corps in 2012 than in 2011 ? Raise your hand here if you believe the Cavaliers Corps overall had more marchers that worked less harder in 2012 than in 2011? Raise your hand here if you believe that the Cavaliers Corps overall had more marchers that worked less smarter in 2012 than 2011 ? Well, from looking around the room, it seems to me that noone has their hands raised. I'll assume then that we are all on the same page here on DCP that the 2012 Cavaliers Corps had veteran talent, that they worked just as hard, and worked just as smart, as the 2011 Cavaliers Corps. So why did they fall so quickly and so deeply in 1 year by 5 placement positions ? Well we know why. The Cavaliers lost long time Visual Show Designer, Michael Gaines, thats why.. Raise your hand here if you believe that the 2012 Cavaliers Corps that finished in 8th place would have done so if Gaines did the Show Design in 2012 ? I know, I know, its a stupid question. ( Of course they would not have ). So, what do reasonable and intelligent people conclude from this ? Well, that its the Adult Show Designers that have more bearing on placements than the marchers do. Its not logically possible and rational to believe that The Cavaliers could have saved themselves from plummeting 5 placement positions from 2011 to 2012, unless we want to go back and change our minds on my 3 questions above in the first paragraph, and raise our hands on those 3 questions, and thus believe that it was the youthful marchers in competition that were responsible for the judged competition plummet of 5 placement positions from 2011 to 2012. Edited June 24, 2014 by BRASSO 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ML23 Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 It's all situational. Troopers revamped their design and instructional staff going into last season and saw significant improvement. SCV has had a number of staff changes in the last several years with varying degrees of success. Cavaliers changes prior to this year have hurt more than helped, especially in visual and brass. I think the goal of any staff change is to create consistency; nobody hires a designer or caption head with the intention of replacing them anytime soon. The top 3 corps in DCI last season have been largely consistent in their most successful areas, and I don't believe that's coincidental. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloryah Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 I think it would also depend on how the new person(s) on the staff get along with the other people on the staff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DAvery Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 DCI today is adults judging adults. It is not the marchers that are being judged anymore in competition that primarily generates the scores and placements. Not really. ( thats a passe false myth now.. that no longer holds true, as its time has come and gone.. despite the fact that in my observations, few want to acknowledge this, it seems to me ). It's been that way since the beginning of DCI. It has always been about the "names" on your staff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flammaster Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 I see it happens both ways. Sometimes members are used to the old instructor and the new method is alien to them and sometimes it's a fresh new start. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perc2100 Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 Yes, he wrote for PR In 2008 (solid, made sense, didn't detract from the effectiveness of the rest of the corps). But he also wrote for PR in 2009 (trainwreck visually). I think he was pretty young when he wrote for PR. I'm sure he's gotten better and will mature into this role. Vis was PR 98 weak point, and their success that year seems more like a fluke than a trend (for vis designed) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 (edited) It's been that way since the beginning of DCI. It has always been about the "names" on your staff. I suppose that all depends on what time frame you are talking about. In the early years of DCI, there really wasn't a lot of " names " known to the national Marching Band community.. and specifically its marchers... that were attracted to certain Corps based upon the " names of of the staff " in Drum Corps,.. And the " names of staff " were distributed among 3 times as many Corps... with some " names " early on writing for similar level Corps in competition too. Additionally, the Blue Devils did not quickly rise to the top in DCI because they had " the staff names ". Most of them were in their late twenties and early 30's themselves on that BD staff back then, and far from household " names" even in the national Drum Corps community, let alone in the national Marching Band community outside of Calif. So the comment that its " always been about the names of staff" and that " its been this way since the beginning of DCI " is not my assessment of this at all... nor is it my recollection of this back then either. Marchers today are far more attracted to Corps " Staff Names " than they were back " in the beginning of DCI " ( as you stated here .) And more importantly, as shows have evolved into the highly stylized and elaboratte productions they have today than they were BITD, it is the adult Show Designers that are scored and placed in DCI today, far more than thew marchers are.. with Cavaliers of 2011, and 2012 being Ehhibit A for evidence of this ( I could easily give dozens of similar examples of this, by the way, to bolster the evidence on this). Edited June 24, 2014 by BRASSO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tesmusic Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 Vis was PR 98 weak point, and their success that year seems more like a fluke than a trend (for vis designed) The music didn't help either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUARDLING Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 (edited) It's been that way since the beginning of DCI. It has always been about the "names" on your staff. yes there were big names that have always helped their corps Just the beginning of DCI Just a few I remember influencing the activity right from the beginning Don Angelica Fred Sanford Pete Emmons Bobby Hoffman Truman Crawford George Tuttle ( SP?) thats just a few who help mold things right from 1972 and before plus the few big name directors . Now just hiring a name staff doesnt always mean success . Actually I have seen the opposite. Unless a name staff is going to put a good number of eggs in your basket you are better off with a more committed staff that will be there and out you 1st.....jmo Edited June 24, 2014 by GUARDLING Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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